Dual Citizenship inches closer...
I am happy to read that the provisions of dual citizenship are being discussed in great length in Parliament now, and it seems that despite large disagreements, the issue is being discussed and soon hopefully settled in a workable way. Of course residency, voting and holding office are some of the big sticking points.
Read the full article.
I'm glad I will be able to go to a KotaykNights event before heading back to Armenia. There's a gathering tonight for this group that encourages restaurants and bars to carry Armenian beer, and has a good time doing it!
Read the full article.
I'm glad I will be able to go to a KotaykNights event before heading back to Armenia. There's a gathering tonight for this group that encourages restaurants and bars to carry Armenian beer, and has a good time doing it!
posted by Raffi K. at 11:30 PM
19 Comments:
Please visit www.kotayknights.com for details about tonight or future event.
Having citizenship without the right to vote or become elected member of government is USELESS! I can not believe some of these local Armenians can be so selfish, stupid and short sided about the benefits of Diaspora Armenians becoming citizens and an active part society in Armenia. Of course there must be and will be requirements that must be met for Diaspora Armenians to become citizens and no one is arguing to hand out citizenship to any diasporan who hasn’t in any way been involved with the republic of Armenia.
I dont see any point of having a dual citizenship. As an Armenia without RA citizenship you have the same rights and even more with your 10 years residency permit or the Armenian Green card that will be introduced soon. If you want to become an official or MP or vote for one then be nice enough to hand over your citizenship and take an RA one.
This is just another PR event by Dashnaktsutyun and Mr Kocharian to please Diaspora before the upcoming elections.
just for the record.. this "pedro" above is not the same pedro from glendale that often posts here.. and i completely agree with vozni.. Pedro Z.
To prevent confusion as to which Pedro is commenting - both of you please use your last name initial (or any random anonymous initial you like) in your comments. Pedro (without an initial) will likely not get approved.
Thanks!
Vozni,
I don’t agree with you. How dare you give yourself the right to call local Armenians
“ selfish or stupid” ? I think local Armenians very well understand the benefits of Diasporans being involved in Armenia’s development but voting or holding office requires much more than being a diasporan Armenian. It requires one to be truly in favor of the people and for many diasporans who visit Armenia on a holiday, they have no clue what that means. Why should anyone have the right to make decisions for the locals when they don’t have the experience of living in there? Now if those same Diasporans lived in Armenia for a long-term period and bothered to embrace themselves in the local culture it would be a different story. I think it is sad that some people think like you!
As a diasporan who lived in Armenia for 3 years
I am offended.
"Anonymous", I think you are being ultra-sensitive and really defensive about "Vozni's" comments. If you re-read the note, it says "some" local Armenians. And, those "some" who oppose it seem not to understand the benefits of dual citizenship, or are not open-minded and creative on how it can benefit everyone. Additionally, it is not sad to challenge and point out some of the "local" views and political stances. In fact, it is healthy and means we care about Armenia.
You don't need to live in Armenia 24/7, or 3 years to have a valid and insightful opinion on how things work there. Sometimes, you just need common sense. And, common sense tells you that a poor, economically challenged, landlocked, blockaded country of around 2 million people would benefit from a large, caring, active, involved, and economically stable Diaspora whose ties to Armenia go back hundreds of years.
Let's not go back to the "one island, two Armenian churches" mentality.
One doesn't need Dual Citizenship legislation to get the dispersion to get involved in the democratic process or economic development in Armenia. This is symbolic gesture at best and fails to tackle the real issues dividing the ROA from Armenians living outside its borders.
if you follow the parliament debates, you'll see that those "some" Armenians opposing dual citizenship are mainly those parliament members who are nepotistic oligarchs or parties (Handrabedakan) that cater to gov't connected monopolies and businesses that typically DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES.
Certainly these "some" Armenians have a vested interest in not allowing diaporans who are active in business and life in Armenia from getting any influence in the controlling of the country.
It is certainly selfish and stupid by any local Armenian to not want the thousands of diasporans who have up to now invested heavily in the economy, culture and life in Armenia to be excluded from power sharing and influence with the right of citizenship, once they have met all the requirements.
In fact most local Armenians who wish to have a democratic, just and prosperous Armenia realize that the only hope of balancing power to the current corrupt regime is the Diaspora’s influence inside the country.
I think the question should be put in referendum before passing the law. I know that US citizens living outside US still fill in their Income tax forms. I think it would be necessary for Armenian citizens living outside of Armenia to fill in tax forms giving a small percentage of their income to Armenia, otherwise it will turn out that the citizens living in Armenia will take the whole burden of related administrative expenses such as printing of the ballot papers. A 1 or 2% income tax should be sufficient. Then we will see that how many people will take dual citizenship :) The citizenship needs to be treated with respect not just as a piece of paper (passport) for show off that how patriot a person is.
Anonymous,
Symbolic gestures can actually be very powerful. And, I think Armenia is due to provide a welcome mat that is genuine to Diasporans and non-Armenians alike. Also, not everyone in the Diaspora has the interest, time, or energy to want to get involved politically. Just like citizens of Armenia who either struggle with their daily lives trying to make ends meet within a corrupt environment, or those who sit at cafes most of the day and have nothing better to do. And everyone in between.
I would suggest you study the model of Israel and Ireland to see how a symbolic action can yield positive results.
Or, you can continue to have blinders on and finally concede that political change in Armenia can eventually only come from within. The more you have from within that have the desire to change things, the more results you will get. Expanding that base, can certainly help not hurt.
My last question- what real disadvantage would there be to allowing Diasporans to become dual citizens of the country? Seriously?
All I gotta say is it's about damn time, because I'm getting sick and tired of all thes white canadians laughing at my dream of having and becomming an Armenian citizen (especially those who say canada is better then Armenia, and that I will beg to come back to canada) with a passport (hopefully), and therefore legally being connected to a true NATION-state, to which canada really can't call itself at all. I'm sorry for those who disagree but living here all my life there is no way this is a nation, without any signficiant force, making everyone "act" like one.
But besides that hooooraaah
Amendments to the bill passed in the first reading envisage three categories of people eligible to apply for dual citizenship. The first group embraces citizens of foreign states of full legal age who have lived in Armenia for the last three years, know the Armenian language and basics of Constitution.
Foreign citizens married to citizens of Armenia or who have a child that is a citizen of Armenia form the second group. The third group includes persons who either were previously citizens of Armenia or who were born in Armenia.
Full article is here.
anonymous your ignorant comments about Canada are a disgrace.
I was born there, lived there all my life, and moved to Armenia close to 5 years ago.
I will NEVER in my life disrespect where I came from. It gave me so much which I will never disregard.
I am in Armenia now, WITH AN ARMENIAN PASSPORT (which any Canadian-Armenian can apply for and get), and I'm working a job which is bringing in great income. Without my experience and success which I achieved IN CANADA, I would have NEVER gotten to where I am at this point. I would have NEVER raised enough money to make this move and live here "comfortably".
And now, along the way, I have found young local friends (I suppose I can call 'proteges'.) I have given them opportunities to develop their skills in the same field of work. We work TOGETHER, and we will taste success TOGETHER.
Laugh at Canada all you want. In the meantime, I have so many local friends who would dream to have that one chance to work and live in such a great NATION called ... CANADA.
OK, one more comment from a Canadian-Armenian. I too feel the same way as DerHova. It is unfair to any nation really, Armenia included, to make such black and white jugement.
But coming back to the issue of dual citizenship, it is a very sensative matter and does need to be discussed at great lengths. The process should happen with the buy in of most (even those you consider stupid) as it will only result in a step ahead. There is no need to force the issue. Let those who believe in the importance of providing dual citizenship convince the others.
I for one who have been living in Armenia for close to 4 years will not apply to an Armenian citizenship if it were applicable only because in a case of emergency I would not be evacuated by Canada of which I am a citizen - and this thought alone makes me hesitate. The reality is, I have 3 children under my responsibility and have to think not just what is right as an Armenian, but also as a Father.
Hmm, I didn't know that my comments were being excluded as well. I don't think they were inflammatory or contained anything negative.
I don't know what comment(s) you're talking about. In any case, I assume you are aware your comments will not show up instantaneously - they can take up to a day or more...
Raffi N,
The fact of having Armenian citizenship will not prevent you from being 'evacuated' as a Canadian. Last summer tens of thousands of Lebanese holding Canadian passports were evacuated from Lebanon during the war (at an expense to Canadian taxpayers by the way of approximately $80,000,000). Many of those Lebanese were not residents or taxpayers of Canada.
Having an Armenian or other passport will not diminish your rights as a Canadian.
I don't think I would want Armenian citizenship, since I'm Hispanic, though I've visited Armenia with my Armenian friend last year. I thought it was a very nice place and if I were Armenian, I would want to live there like you are.
BTW, I'm not eighter of the Pedro's that have so far commented. I'm the third Pedro to comment on this log and did so just to say hello to you all and show that it's not just an Armenian name.
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