Thursday, November 09, 2006

Part Two - What is going on with us?

Here is where my little story goes on…

One night over drinks someone in our group somewhat casually interjected that "she hated being Armenian". Whoa. The comment stunned me but I was also equally surprised by my non- judgment of this girl. In fact, there was also a palpable sense of understanding among all Armenians in the group – I got a feeling that many of them had toyed with same kind of disappointment. In any case, I appreciated this girl’s honesty in expressing these feelings, I had personally just never heard it expressed with such a powerful word as “hate” from someone I know had been so dedicated to putting Armenians first. The comment clearly had accumulated angst and resentment associated with it that I figured I’d probe about when it didn't feel as threatening. However, it did serve to confirm my feeling that the laundry list of interpersonal issues within our community that aren't being addressed are permeating in unpleasing ways.

She graduated at the top of her class from one of the highest ranked law schools in the nation and started out her career working on cases that represented the underprivileged with special care toward Armenians. She has since moved on. We can't afford to have anyone, much less smart minds who are passionate about working with Armenians, turn their backs on us like this!

I am not familiar with all organizations but I have knowledge of my fair share and though there are a few that are admirable, I have seen many more that were damn pitiful – bright, energetic professionals who start out their careers with a passion for working toward the mission of our organizations are being met with truly unfair compensation and incredibly hostile environments with insurmountable expectations and no validation or reward. Many of them not only leave the organizations because they are highly marketable, but they are leaving and don't even want to look back. And, I won't say it but who do you think they are leaving behind? If you employ an Armenian it doesn't meant that, that person needs to donate their livelihood to you and take your shit. Who wants to use Hrya’s as an example but living in LA you work with them and every one of them know that the people who work with their organizations as journalists, teachers, fund raisers, and executives are among the most valuable to their community and damned are they if they mistreat these people. Yet, we don't think twice about what sort of affect these actions are going to have.


Now I come to a few comments I have read on the Repat blog recently. There were some comments made under New Anthem that were basically saying that Armenians in the Diaspora shouldn’t have a say in the things that takes place in Armenia, in this case with expressing feelings about Mer Hayrenik. One comment went so far as to say we don’t do much more for Armenia than donate $20 once a year during the telethon. I felt these comments did little more than create a Armenia vs. Diaspora divide. I am not saying that I or anyone outside of Armenia can even profess to know about what will serve the daily lives of the people in our homeland without living there for a significant period of time. But all those comments serve to do is instill another path which alienates us from each other and ultimately threatens to diminish the strength of who we are as Armenians. To tell me that I should have no say in our national anthem because I don’t live in Armenia and that I as the reader do nothing more for Armenia than donate $20 offends me. I personally have done much more and know lots of people who always bend over backwards to do what they can, but what if that is all we can do? Does that make us less worthy? We aren’t an X-Men cult with super powerful abilities that can affect great change single handedly. If all someone can do is donate a few bucks to the Telethon it should never be frowned upon or express a desire to restrict their connection to Armenia. And there is no need to degrade any effort, especially when there are Armenians throughout the US and even in the greater Los Angeles area who are really struggling.


I know the image everyone has of us is that we throw lavish parties and cruise around in our ridiculously expensive cars without a care in the world. Although this isn’t untrue, it is drowning out the voices of Armenians who are struggling and aren't clustered in the Glendale vicinity. Elders with no support or English skills are having a hard time navigating the social services systems to get the care they need, kids are being influenced by gangs and drugs with parent(s) who can hardly make ends meet as part of the white working poor of America. And are we so naïve as to think our households are immune from the perils of domestic violence? Yet which Armenia organization targets to aide them? In the US we are also grouped under the auspices of being “white” so don’t have a voice of our own to get the needed support.

Then more recently under the log about smooching in Armenia, the conversation evolved into comments that Harmick made that I found to be so poignant.

Here is my spiel (finally huh? lol): I think that the current generation of college students and newish graduates are leading the way for a new mentality of our American Armenians who are not nearly as forgiving as some of their predecessors for unethical behavior within their community. We can’t expect to raise them with idealistic views on how wonderful it is to be Armenian and how important it is that we don’t loose our language and culture yet screw them over in business, take advantage of the few who want to work in our organizations, and be tactless the way we treat one another. If they are working to live up to the high expectations and paying the social costs to not assimilate into white America they are expecting the same integrity in return. How often do we hear of people being taken advantage of for petty amounts of gain...yet the psychological damage is long standing and the message gets passed through to all of us.

Harmick perfectly exemplifies this in his comment when he expresses tolerance by saying “I understand Armenians often have a lack of tact, and usually have good intentions, but…”. This atomically puts him into my generation of thought. However, perhaps his younger sibling but certainly the emerging generations are not nearly as open to accepting this. Part of the problem is that they aren't going to go to war over it with the us either with their demands, instead they just quietly turn their back on who they are.

Ultimately we are building as many superficial divides as humanely possible that are doing nothing more than alienating us from each other and willfully giving up our power. Most of it is just human nature but we do have a say in how we are shaping our Diaspora for the future generations as individuals. Subconsciously we don't think twice about it because we think we will always have the unwavering support of our people. No matter what dialect we speak, the spices we use to make our food, or how our country of origin has influenced our lifestyle, the differences should be celebrated and indulged in rather than constantly using them against each other. It’s one thing for a half Armenian to have parents that prioritized teaching them to speak and be Armenian, or didn't for their own reasons. However how many times can that person overlook the way they get treated in our community? Especially, as Harmick also said, "it's the place you should be accepted". I don't think we can afford to even loose one person to negative experiences in any of our communities yet so many are quietly walking away and looking for the refuge they need elsewhere.

That's my piece. I'll get back to you in the next 50 years to let you konw how things are going:) Nancy Pelosi Speak of the House! Yay!!



27 Comments:

Anonymous Knarik O. Meneshian said...

And how many dedicated and talented people--of all ages--have we lost over the years and continue to lose? Imagine how strong we could have been, could be, as a people, as a nation.

5:43 AM  
Blogger shooosh said...

A few random thoughts...

-We lose those resourceful Armenians because other people are busy going after personal causes... sad truth. (And 99% of the time, the "other" people are the ones who don't have nearly as much to offer...)

-Diaspora, without Armenia would disappear. (just look at the definition of diaspora) But Armenia without Diaspora... what would happen? This is what should really be discussed. Some believe that Armenia can make it on her own 2 feet... others will say no way! I personally think the reason Armenia has come so far in just 15 years, is because of the influence or intellect or experience or finance (or whatever) the Diaspora has put into Armenia. Could it have reached it without Diaspora? Most probably. But it would definitely have taken longer than 15 yrs.. let's atleast admit that.

-I know people who are "tired" of being Armenian too. Let's put aside the fact that some parents are a bit stricter than those of your odar friends... but seriously, growing up Armenian is difficult. Over the years, I've thought about this so much. I really believe that it is passed on to us from the Genocide. It is this psyche that is handed down generation to generation. How many of us grew up being told .. "hayeren khosir" every 5 minutes? How many of us knew about the Genocide well before age 10? How many of us felt sad, and mad-- utterly frustrated about the fact that year after year, nothing is ever done!? We carry this "burden" (because I can't think of another word to describe what some people feel), and ya... sometimes we REALLY dislike all the responsibility that's put upon us. Now add the social pressures and restrictions... OBVIOUSLY people are going to shrug their shoulders and say.. "uff, forget it".

Ok, shad kretsi...

12:17 PM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Shoosh said:

"I personally think the reason Armenia has come so far in just 15 years, is because of the influence or intellect or experience or finance (or whatever) the Diaspora has put into Armenia. Could it have reached it without Diaspora? Most probably. But it would definitely have taken longer than 15 yrs.. let's atleast admit that."

I have two questions regarding that.

1) How far has Armenia come in 15 years? Could you bring some facts or statistics?

2) How influential was the Diasporan influence? Again some hard data would be desirable.

2:18 PM  
Anonymous Dr. Hrak Derderian said...

I understand the "hate" issue. It's a matter of time when the American Armenian Diaspora will assimilate with the rest of Americana, whatever that may end up being in the next 25-75 years. It’s hard being a loyal Armenian in the US. For instance, I've been going to a few job interviews where Armenians were the final decision makers and it was a horrific experience to say the least. None of them spoke to me in Armenian, they just asked if I was Armenian and where my family was from. Once I answered them it was curtains. No matter where I was from it was the kiss of death for these Armenian interviewers. One Armenian man I recently interviewed with at Children’s Hospital even stated that American Armenian are the type to want promotions, and he couldn’t risk that notion in this position. This was right after he intimately shared with me his Gomidas musical experience at a recent Alex theater event in Glendale. Call me fool, but that doesn’t seem morally or ethically correct, especially coming out of a fellow Armenian. I just wanted to strangle this guy, my goodness. I'm seriously thinking about changing my last name, and keeping my Armenian identity a secret from other future job interviewers and colleagues. I don't really look Armenian, so I can probably get away with it. I don't know, I’m just so frustrated and confused on what I am. My father and grandfather would probably get very angry with me but it seems a matter of time when I will go to social security and change my name. I certainly don’t what my kids going through these experiences. Does anyone want to share his or her own similar experiences?

11:15 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Knarik…very true.

***

Shooosh/Artashes...I think that the genocide does shape us as well. Just as I think slavery has done a number on the Black community to this day. It’s hard to know what Armenia would look like right now without the Diaspora. There are so many factors to consider. And I don’t know if there are statistical facts on what Artashes is asking. How can you accurately test for how far a country has come in 15 years and how much influence one party has had? You’d have to factor in international aid, corruption, the influence of vast technological advancements and the changing face of the global economy alongside the Diaspora.

Where did you think Armenia would be today, 15 years ago? I guess if you put Armenia side by side with another Soviet Republic who had a similar make up as us without support from a Diaspora you could begin to see what an alternative could have looked like for us…

If you travel through Syria today and compare to the way things were 15 years ago you’d have to keep reminding yourself where you were because of how advanced things are. But if you travel through Cambodia today, you are strongly advised to stay on paved roads and never wander off because you still have serious threats and land mines that were put in place during the Khmer Rouge regime…and how many years has it been? So what is significant advancement for a country in 15 years anyway.

2:24 AM  
Anonymous v said...

Though I can relate to the resentment of a person being misstreated, I think the piece (and the person being misstreated) misses the point in the situation. This reminds me of an article about international [child] adoptions in the "Money" magazine couple of years ago, the main mesage of which was: "Adopting a child is a financial business". Now, to some this perspective may be rude and insensitive, as the article itself stipulated, but you can't get the desired result without coldheartedly assessing the means that the adoption is going to require.

In the same way one shouldn't neglect the business part of "helping Armenia". Sure everyone would like to donate both their time and financial resources towards helping Armenian and Armenians, be it building a sewer system for a preschool in the Republic of Armenia, or adressing the contemporary issues of the diasporan communities, but the matter of the fact is that we don't nearly have unlimited resources to dispose of, and it takes some skillful management to allocate them properly. And if the return of working at some organization is minimal or nonexistent, then one should'nt spend her time and efforts for the goals of the organizations at all. (Just like one shouldn't adopt the child whose medical expenses would be a burden for her, no matter how much she liked the child). If donating some money or volounteering time doesn't get the job done, then that's a waste, though for sure it makes one feel a heck of a lot better, since it creates the aura of acomplishing a good deed (adopting a child because we love them makes us feel good too, after all which child doesn't need the love). So you've been mistreated at an organization, dump them; but if it affects your feelings about being and Armenian, then you didn't do a good job of managing your resources in the first place! And as long as there is someone willing to unthoughtfully dedicate their time and efforts, there will be someone trying to exploit that, Armenian or non-Armenian. So it's about time to get rid of the sentimentallity of being Armenian inherent in most of the diasporan communities, since this makes people "contribute" not with a business mind, but based on sentiments, which indespensably brings to a dissapointment (even of being an Armenian) once our sincere contributions are not treated with the deepest sympathy that they deserve in our sentimental mind.

As to the anthem, I do believe that only registered voters in Armenia have a say in that (as the ones electing the representatives of the people to the National Assembly), which doesn't mean the diaporan views shouldn't be lobbied in the NA. But sitting on your couch and saying "the anthem stays" is not gonna get you anywhere, more so in the case that the parliamentarians don't worry about losing your vote in the next elections.

4:43 AM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Lisa,

Well, as for the first question, there ARE widely-used (though imperfect) indicators of development, both socio-economic and political - such as GDP per capita, income distribution within population (Gini coefficient), HDI (Human Development Index) that takes into account life expectancy, education level, etc., corruption perception index and other related parameters from the Transparency International, Freedom House rankings on political and social freedoms, and so on (not least the public opinion surveys).

My point is that, to be objective, one should back any statement on progress or regress of a country with comprehensive data comparing now and 15 years ago.

Influence of Diaspora is admittedly more difficult to measure, and that is even a bigger reason not to simply assume that it was BIG (or SMALL, for that matter).

The comparison with other republics will be valid ONLY if ALL major variables between Armenia and a given country are identical and the ONLY big difference is presence or absence of Diaspora (it's called "most similar cases" method in social science).

And only on the level of perceptions, or emotions, there have to be differences between people with, well, different perceptions of the role of Diaspora (and it would not be too much of exaggeration to state that Armenian citizens and Diasporans perceive that role differently).

Hence, the discussion will be mainly fruitless, since you can hardly change one's perception only by the force of your own perception...

5:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Much of the alienation has to do with the ingrained biases and rigidity of Armenian organizations and the effect that they have on their membership.

What is often imparted to new members, volunteers, participants, etc., is "This is not the way we have done it in the past," or "This is not how someone did the job before you had it."

This lack of appreciation or desire for new ideas; the fear of the paradigm shifting; allowing one's egotism to guide in decision-making; chauvinism; age discrimination; or constantly belittling or undermining the authority of those who would choose to take positions of leadership and authority within our organizations is what is destroying the Armenian-American community.

8:08 AM  
Blogger shooosh said...

Artashes... as I'm not in the field of sociology or politics, or any other field necessary to quote numbers and stats... I cannot "scientifically" analyze my opinions, or back them up with the "proper" data you seem to already know.... Sorry buddy... it's just what I think, from my own experiences.

And as far as all those numbers.. don't you think if we are comparing all that stuff, the fact that a MAJORITY of Armenians in Armenia receive PRIVATE aid from friends or family abroad, already makes Diaspora an influential part of the Armenian reality??? Come on man, so what if I don't know the numbers. (Don't sweat the small stuff).

The point being... Diasporan Armenians (whether through organizations or personal efforts) influence Armenia's economy and growth... directly or indirectly. Can this really be argued?

2:07 PM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Shoosh,

Nobody argues that there is SOME influence of Diaspora. Of course, there is. The only point was how big it is, and whether one can claim that it was so big as to be ESSENTIAL for Armenia to "come so far" in the last 15 years. [And what does "coming so far" assume? Economy? Standard of living? Democracy? Morals?]

(And I tend not to include in the notion of "Diaspora" the migrants from Armenia in the last decade or so who are by far the largest part of private remitters of money to their families back home.)

4:09 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Dr. H...I'm sorry you are having these trying experiences but I don't think that changing your name is a real solution. You have to find a way to do better than that so you can live truthfully and your kids will have more of a solid chance in everything they try.

***

V... you have a point, I'll give ya that, one that goes against my grain, but it's a valid point....taking sentimentality out of your drive to do the things you do...c'mon! lol

The Anthem issue is now a moot subject but if I understood the bloggers correctly it wasn't up to a vote. There was a committee working on it.

***

Anonymous...certainly part of it is the power struggle you're describing.

***

Artashes...i'm sure that the indicators are there, I meant that we, or at least I, don't have the cold hard facts you are asking for. If the study hasn't been done or if I can't find it online, then the best I can do is gage expectations and do a little comparison. The republics don't have to be carbon copies with the only difference being the diaspora to gage an opinion. Which humans do you know that are that identical, yet we have all kinds of scientific information on our behavior. If you have an opinion, I invite you to share it...we'd do a better job of showing the human experience than those economist goofballs. lol It's not so bad for our purposes on this blog ...we're sharing experiences, intuition, and ideas and I'm not throwing these things out there without being sensitive to objectivity.

It's hard to know how EFFECTIVE the Diaspora has been on the implementation of their initiatives in Armenia and Karabakh...and by Diaspora I think we are referring to personal contributions of Armenians outside Armenia, including our major donors, made to organizations that implement the projects toward their mission - though vital to livlihood, I think 'gifts' from the Diaspora directly to their family isn't a direct part of the sustainable development we're talking about. What I do know is that most of us would probably attest to the fact that there is HUGE effort in trying to make the needed big changes...we have taken responsibility. Look at it like this...if you didn't have the Diaspora who would Armenia have to rely on? International aide and their own government...yikes. Karabakh isn't even recognized by USAID as far as I know and wouldn't have any support at all without the Diaspora.

And I most definitely DO think that perception can change perception.

10:49 PM  
Anonymous v said...

The committee on the Anthem was to decide the finalists, and national symbols are changed by a vote in the National Assembly, the members of which are eleceted by the people registered to vote in that country.

As to taking sentimentality out of your drive, I do think that there are those things that are fun only with proper sentiments that go with them, and those things that don't mix well with the sentimental attitude. This is one of the reasons that the Hayastantsy Armenians don't consider the diasporan Armenians' say worth even considering, since being Armenian is (arguably) only of sentimental value to most of them, that indeed gets dealt with by those $20 donations for most part. And this is not an individual issue, though every one can change his/her attitude towards their ethinc origin/roots/culture, but a broader one that should be addressed both by the diasporan organizations, the civic institutions and the government of RA. But so far it seems that everyone is happy with keeping the connection between Armenia and the diaspora on the sentimental strings, since this brings in the intellectual, financial and other resources (solicited by pumping from the sentimental values), and doesn't directly inspire the diaspora to interfere with the internal government of Republic of Armenia on a bigger scale (which would jeopardize the local system of power). All of this is well enough illustrated by the process of instituting the double citizenship in Armenia. Feel free to disagree with me, but it seems to me that everything is being done to turn the Armenian citizenship for those in diaspora into yet another sentimental thing to cherish ("yay, I've gotten my new shiny Armenian Passport, don't you think it looks good next to the mini-flag of Armenia on the piano?").

So I guess my view is, fine, be sentimental all you like, but don't complain when others make a tool of it to use you, since this is one of the fundemental methods that the organizations in questions work with (even the Hreya ones you mention, they just go the extra mile of covering it with a frosting of good publicity).

11:45 PM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Lisa,

Fair enough. You want just individual experiences and perceptions to be exchanged, here is mine (and being a more or less open-minded person, I still am not sure that you or anybody else can change my perceptions through anecdotic dialog; the "cold hard facts" are somehow disparaged in this blog, and now I am tempted to do a little research and find some of those "cold" facts and show how meaningful AND 'emotionally hot' they could be! :)).

Ok, from my own experience and perceptions, the standard of living of MOST Armenian citizens has precipitously fallen after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then very slowly has risen almost back to the Soviet level but is still lower than that. Consider one simple fact: in Soviet times practically all people had 24-hour electricity, 24-hour hot and cold water, and 24-hour centralized heating during winters. I rest my case.

As for the actual impact of Diaspora on the post-Soviet development of Armenia, it has been, in my perception, insignificant. A lot of words on all sides, but little impact. NOTE: the main exception here would be the enormous sums of money that AAA and ANCA secured from the US Congress (at some point Armenia was the second biggest per capita recipient of American aid in the world - it's not a joke, well over 1 billion dollars in the first 10 years). Well, can anybody show to me what was accomplished for all that money that entered Armenia? .......... In 1999, I was in DC and went to both AAA and ANCA offices to see first-hand what the "Armenian lobby" is doing. :) I talked to the spokeswoman of ANCA Elizabeth Chuljian (very nice and smart lady), and when the question above came up she looked at me, sadness in her eyes, and shook her head. "At least we are doing all we can from this side", was her answer. Being an Armenian citizen, I felt a sharp bout of shame for my country...

I have not kept well abreast of Diasporan efforts and projects in Armenia in the last couple of years, so there could be more significant things happening now, although my perception is that these are NOT systematic efforts and they do not and can not change the endemically corrupt SYSTEM already in place.

One of the biggest positive roles that Diaspora could have played for a long-term development of Armenia - and which she failed miserably - would be the principled stand of especially American and European (as raised in the rule-of-law and more or less civilized environment) Diasporan leaders in demanding, say, simple things like honest counting of people's votes during elections. Instead, they just zipped their mouths. In the name of what? For Armenia not being embarrassed publicly? For Turkey not to score points, etc., etc.? Ridiculous, if so. You do not treat cancer with bandaid in order not to be embarrassed in front of the neighbors...

The unworthy Armenian leaders considered Diaspora just a cash cow, and the unworthy Diasporan leaders either sheepishly acquiesced or sheepishly withdrew when they saw that their hard-earned cash goes to Swiss accounts of scoundrels within Ter-Petrossian's and then Kocharian's inner circles.

The only serious public repudiation of the current Armenian government (which is, by the way, identical to the Ter-Petrossian's one in all major principles of (mis)governance) came recently from the famed historian Richard Hovannisian... too little, too late, and seems mainly because they slapped his aspiring politician son.

In sum, my perception of Diaspora's role in Armenia's development is that of a half-baked, just money-focused investment.

Could it do more considering that Armenia got established as a typical corrupt Third World country with unpatriotic authoritarian leadership?? Maybe NOT... That's why I am not faulting Diaspora nearly as much as I am the Armenian leadership that egregiously breached the trust of the nation after the beautiful wave of national unification movement in 1988 brought those leaders to power.

But in that case let us at least not say that the impact of Diaspora was HUGE, Decisive, etc.. It's just not true.

Regards,
Artashes

1:43 AM  
Blogger Raffi K. said...

Artashes, next time you tempt me to reject your comment, I will. Your cold hard facts and your imagination often overlap.

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Knarik O. Meneshian said...

As I read the last comment on this site, I could not help but think of the saying, "No good deed goes unpunished" when I thought about all that the Diaspora has done for Armenia (and in a great number of cases, with great sacrifice) since as far back as the early 20th century, and continues to do. We can do only so much, the rest must come from within the country.

2:28 AM  
Blogger Raffi said...

Artashes,

I like and respect your comments most of the time, but, this last one really had me scratching my head.

I personally do not feel the Diaspora is obligated to help Armenia. If and when it does, I commend the will to want to be altruistic. On the other hand, I feel Armenian citizens are obligated to help themselves.

Regarding cold hard facts on how Diasporans- either organizations or individuals- have helped, I will ask you to do the research on your own. There is plenty to choose from.

However, a good place to start would be the Lincy Foundation, ArmeniaFund, ARS, AGBU, etc. Even if things have not worked to perfection in the execution of project, the goodwill intent is always there. And, most of the work gets done.

4:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's interesting to see the different perspectives and allegiances come forth in the comments people leave.

What I've gleaned outright so far is:

1. The Diaspora is not obligated to help Armenia; whatever they provide is sheer altruism.

2. The Armenian people are obligated to help themselves.

What I've inferred is that Armenians living in Armenia have a strong bias against Diasporan Armenians. I've seen in a previous comment left to the blogger Arsineh a kind of quick-tempered defensiveness that proves this. "If you don't like our Armenia, then leave. Wasn't the United States good enough for you? What do you want in Armenia?"

Personally, I think that sort of spiteful attitude, whether it was said or written in "kindness" is disgusting. It doesn't bode well for anyone from the Diaspora who wants to repatriate. Why should Diasporans be treated as suspect?
And, why this self-loathing or a refusal to see the situation as being in need of improvement?

What are the Diasporan Armenians holding on to this culture for? Is it all some big farce?

5:00 AM  
Anonymous Artashes said...

Raffi K.,

This was one of my better pieces written in a flowing and logical prose, and you probably got so taken by it that missed the very first line! :):)

Raffi,

I don't see any contradiction in our posts since we talk about different things. I never wrote or implied that Diaspora is "obligated" to help Armenia. Mine was a reaction to the previous authors' claim that its help was Crucial or Vital for Armenia, or something along those lines. Of course, there was and is a lot of help and/or investment (and not ALL of it altruistic, as you would know better than me), but my perception is that it was NOT crucial because it was not systematic, it did not help to bring better business and political ethics to Armenia, and a lot of it got actually wasted due to the lack of principles or courage on the part of Diasporan investors to publicly put to shame the corrupt Armenian officials. Instead, they just silently withdrew (and the last one seems to be the "fact" since I read from different sources that the level of investment - and good will - is much lower now than most Diasporan Armenians would be expecting and willing to provide to a long-dreamed independent Armenia).

The perception of many Diasporans that their collective help was ESSENTIAL is natural (from their standpoint) and understandable, but does not coincide with my view because I KNOW first-hand many concrete people, and heard from them about many more (experiential perception, if you want), whose livelihood AND spirits were not in any way affected by (often nobly conceived) Diasporan efforts. And, by the way, most of them did NOT expect the rich Diasporan daddy to come and give them a candy (ya, some did! :)). They justly blame their own government for criminal mismanagement (of the external Armenian funds too), and shrug their shoulders about the ineffective Diaspora: "What could those people do? Would I invest my money into this corrupt system?". This is quite a common perception that I mostly share. [And still, vast majority of people is very grateful to Lincy, AGBU, and others.]

And that brings me to my original point: neither Lisa or Raffi or I will change our PERCEPTIONS as a result of their exchange, as interesting and fun as it could be. A thoroughly and objectively conducted RESEARCH, on the other hand, CAN - provided we are not too blinded by our backgrounds and prejudices to the voice of "cold facts" and truth.

Best,
Artashes

7:13 AM  
Blogger Raffi K. said...

Alright Artashes, since it is clear you are just too lazy to do any real research into the contributions of the Diaspora, let me help you out with a few little things it has done off the top of my head...

If they've ever walked on a sidewalk in central Yerevan, they did not trip because of Kerkorian, if they've ever been on a smooth street in Yerevan, again Kerkorian, if they've ever been on a highway from the border of Iran all the way up to Georgia, then again, they owe a thanks to that man, not to mention if they have been to a cultural venue in Yerevan or were homeless in the earthquake zone. Also thanks to the American Armenian lobby for the over 1.5 billion in aid the us has sent since independence, again including thousands of homes for earthquake victims. Wait, did I say 1.5 BILLION, yes, I did. You don't even understand Elizabeth's complaint as to how some the money was being wasted - by whom I should say. If you kept warm with kerosene in the years without electricity, remember to say thanks to Aznavour and others, if you used any of the THOUSANDS of containers of aid that were shipped to Armenia for FREE by plane, say thanks to the United Armenian Fund, if you went to any of the schools in the border areas that were remodeled, thank the AEF. If you have a job in tourism, thank all of us who have been plugging Armenia online, written articles, and then thank those who brought the Marriott to Armenia, remodeled the Ani Hotel, built Tufenkian hotels across the country, brought journalists to write about Armenia, funded the Tourist Information office in Yerevan, etc. Like the new arrival terminal at Zvartnots? Thank Eurnikian. If you watch CNN International in English on TV for free (Armenia's only English channel on the air), thank Cafesjian, if you go to free open air concerts at the Cascades in the summer, thank him too, and if you are glad the film library of ArmenFilm will be digitally preserved, the thank you note goes to the same address. Gotten a pair of free glasses? Thank the ARS eyeglass offices. Free eye surgery, free medical equipment for hospitals, home in Karabakh, web cam on Ararat since back in the 90s, excellent tips at restaurants that helped everyday people help themselves and their families, and a MILLION other things, tiny and huge, thank the diaspora. The useless, inconsiderate, ungrateful, quick to pull out when they get fucked by the local system diaspora. Oops, did I get a bit pissed? Did I have a right?

Remember, if you ask 10 Americans if the Iraq war has affected their life in any way and they say no, that doesn't mean they are right.

Can we MOVE ON now? Can you go and do your OWN homework now?

8:26 AM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Raffi K.,

I would advise you to read my posts more carefully as you are really missing the point. I actually emphasized the gratitude of ordinary Armenian citizens like me to the efforts of Diaspora in my previous post. But that was NOT the point...

And in your unfortunate emotionality you articulated some adjectives like "useless, inconsiderate, ungrateful" that never crossed my mind while talking or thinking about the collective Diaspora. I can assure you they did not cross the minds of the "10 people" I know in Armenia as well. :)

Closer to the POINT, the facts you are talking about are 1) too diverse to pile together (e.g., the purely altruistic aid simply should not be mentioned in one breath with superprofitable hotels); 2) more importantly, practically none of them (with the possible exception of upgrading the highways in Armenia and Karabakh) was CRUCIAL FOR ARMENIA'S DEVELOPMENT!! (even if "development" is understood mainly from the economic perspective, putting aside for a moment its DEMOCRATIC component)

Note: Everybody is asked to calmly ponder on the meaning of words "crucial" and "development" before jumping to the keyboard.

Artashes

P.S. And I am still waiting for the (long and thoughtful) reaction of Lisa as all this "perception exchange" got on the way through her generous invitation. :)

9:41 AM  
Blogger Lisa said...

For those of you readers who have made it this far in this conversation, I want to bring things full circle back to my original blog to just show how these conversations, yes the one I just got caught up in discussing as well, lead to nowhere but really unfounded divides between the Diaspora and Armenia as we measure efforts against some Armenian standard no one can reach. This is the exact part of the problem that we need to move away from. Yes, there are problems Artashes, we are talking about the development of a COUNTRY, no one has the master plan. Even the United States of America with all its might could NOT go into Iraq and impose its will in all these years. Yet the positive upswing, support, and changes that the Diaspora works for somehow you think you'd be able to get by without it, or it can't be counted as part of development, or whatever you're argument...it doesn't matter. You keep telling the people in the Diaspora that their efforts are falling to blind eyes in the way you are, and they will be swayed away from us, and if nowhere else toward any of the million other social organizations fighting for our loyalty and attention - homelessness, poverty, global warming, abuse, violence, the arts...the causes are MANY and all have the capacity to attract us and the intelligence to get us to stay.

These conversations push people away as demonstrated by an anonymous commenter who asked if this was all a farce. That is the very thing that scares me. How many moments away is a person who asks that, from throwing their hands in the air and degrading the value they put on being Armenian. People will be tempted to think that it is all for nothing. But in that same second you'll remember the stories of all our ancestors and know that most of us can only trace our family line back a couple generations to orphaned grandparents because of a Genocide and that is why we are here discussing this, and that is why we have all these divides, and that is the moment, if you're like me, that you will let go of the superficial crap and stop listening to all the negative opinions and stereotypes, encouraging your friends to do the same, because it lets the other guy win for what they didn't accomplish fully years ago. And that's when I know it isn't a farce.

And I really have to stress Artashes that if you think you can make these comments in a public forum and don't think you are challenging people's perceptions on how they stand as Armenians and the roles they play, you my friend, are dead wrong. You think it's fun and interesting to spare off with people the way we have and site me as an example of someone who wont change my perception no matter how much we go back and forth. I do carry the courage of my convictions to any end but even I know that at any moment I can hear, see, or live through something that has the power to challenge everything I stand for and believe in. And if I know something as simple as a comment can have the capacity to do that for me, what do you think it does to people who are already jaded and on edge. Tread wisely. Don't tell people these things because you push them away and create resentment. Encourage their behavior, make them truly have a reason to feel proud to be Armenian, and you just may see things start to fall into place in your lifetime. It all starts with how we conduct our lives as individuals because sometimes that is all the power we have.

12:51 AM  
Anonymous Knarik O. Meneshian said...

I would like to bring one more example of the type of impact the Diaspora Armenians have on our brothers and sisters in Armenia, Arstakh, and Javakhk: Today I received a letter from a wonderful lady in Armenia who has devoted her life to her beloved people both in Armenia and Javakhk. She says that as she would watch and participate in our classes (when my husband and I worked as volunteers in Armenia teaching English and computers three years ago) she would take careful notes on the lessons taught, and now she uses those same methods with her students. She also explains that our teaching methods and the respectful mannerism we displayed towards ALL the students had made an impact on her and as a result she now uses the same methods to teacher her students. And from an orphan girl in Gyumri, one of my dear and precious students, she said with tearful eyes before we left, "Deegeen Knarik, when I get older I am going to help others too just like you and Baron Murad do." Not everything can be measured in dollars and cents, but what we do as Diasporans for our country and people does make a difference. Maybe to some it doesn't seem like much at all, but we do a lot and in countless different ways that if it doesn't show up now, it will tomorrow.

2:04 AM  
Blogger Raffi said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:29 AM  
Anonymous artashes said...

Lisa,

"And I really have to stress Artashes that if you think you can make these comments in a public forum..." What comments?? The comments that many efforts of Diaspora are nobly conceived, and that they are being gratefully appreciated by the majority of Armenian citizens??

Or that I think that as valuable as they are for the concrete people (in Knarik's case or in the case of Raffi's protege several months ago), and for the psychological reasons, and for national unity reasons, and for sentimental and many other reasons, they have not (could not?)brought a systemic change in the way things are done in Armenia.

Let's say I am right and they have not. So what?? Why are you people panicking (like the anonymous)? Why are you exaggerating and taking offence where none was intended (like Raffi K.)? Why are you getting upset (like Knarik and Lisa)?

Calm down...

If you cannot have a normal respectful dialog with somebody who is a well-intentioned 100% Armenian but with views that do not completely coincide with yours, that's a big problem right there, don't you agree?

12:13 PM  
Blogger Raffi said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:05 AM  
Blogger shooosh said...

Since I spend my day breaking complex concepts down into very basic ideas for 4 and 5 yr olds... Here is my take...

We all see the glass half full... and Artashes sees it half empty (or maybe 3/4 empty).

Either way... we're all working to fill up the glass, (some people like Elizabeth might be working harder and adding more to the glass than us... and then there are some people who just sit there and count every single drop - possibly without a single contribution...).

verch :)

4:32 AM  
Anonymous Jamanag said...

I personally think that much of the aids have also been used by the corrupt politicians in Armenia, and the Diaspora recently awoke from its sleep, and saw that the money they granted did not have its 100% impact, and that the people accountable in Armenia did not do their job. The enthusiasm of rebuilding and helping Armenia that was prevalent in the 90's has diminished in many circles nowadays, and there is a lack of trust.

Moreover, lately, the Armenian Diaspora of USA, who has neglected the Armenians in the Middle East for years, and concentrated its main efforts on Armenia, is trying to put a balance back. This was proven by granting $4.5 million to the 28 Armenian Schools of Lebanon.

1:49 AM  

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