Stop the romance, I want to get off!
Has anyone else besides me noticed how much public make-out sessions are on the increase in Yerevan ? I’ve been walking around this city for four years now, and I’ve noticed a distinct upswing in smooching in public places in the course of this time. Some spots, to be sure, are notorious for other, more base reasons, but any old average park in Yerevan is seemingly appropriate for any couple of inamoratas these days. Not even a park per se. I was just walking past “the monument”, up at the end of the Cascades (where, by the way, they’ve put up a large boat on a table with a huge chair next to it… that’s for another entry, though, I guess), and there was this couple engrossed in one another on a bench, pretty clear for all the world to view… And someone was sitting next to them…! A young lady, at that. She looked like she was waiting for the next marshroutka…
Really, it’s all highly inappropriate, in my opinion. Now, I consider myself to be a nice, quiet (i.e., conservative) Armenian boy, and, to be sure, young ladies and men need to get acquainted with one another on more than one level, but there is such a thing as, you know, bargeshdoutiun, and decent, civil conduct. Am I just being an old fogy here, or do I have a point ?
Anyway, one thing’s for sure: we needn’t worry about any population problems in future.
Really, it’s all highly inappropriate, in my opinion. Now, I consider myself to be a nice, quiet (i.e., conservative) Armenian boy, and, to be sure, young ladies and men need to get acquainted with one another on more than one level, but there is such a thing as, you know, bargeshdoutiun, and decent, civil conduct. Am I just being an old fogy here, or do I have a point ?
Anyway, one thing’s for sure: we needn’t worry about any population problems in future.
posted by Nareg at 8:00 PM
20 Comments:
It's the Year of France in Armenia. It's all just a show to prove to the French we can do it in public also.
Personally, I don't see anything really wrong with it. I've seen it here and there in the city, but nothing that passes the "limits".
Where else should we expect couples to make out? At home with their parents around? A single person living alone is not really heard of in Armenia.
It's all good in my opinion. Good to see people are "in love".
I have noticed the 'phenomenon' as well over the six+ years that I have been walking around in Yerevan, though I don't find the level of making-out-in-public to be alarmingly high. ;-)
I would say that it is not just making out in public that is more visible than it was before, but more in general couples showing their affection by hugging or walking hand in hand or walking with arms around each other. I remember how surprised I was five or six years ago about seeing hardly anyone holding hands or showing affection in public in Yerevan. That has really changed for the better.
These kids have NO privacy in their lives, living with their families in cramped quarters, and with very conservative rules to play with... so, like the US in the 1950s where kids had cars and made out in them, all the kids in Yerevan have are their parks.
So, it's not about to change, better get used to it! :-)
haha...that's scandalous! jk ... i like it...utilizing alternative energy to keep warm:)
Well, there are the back rooms kitted out with beds and mock living rooms in the back of some bars, restaurants and saunas for them as well, but I guess that's a matter of cost.
So, probably it was happening all the time, but just in these types of places or in dark alley ways and parks at night. Now it's more in the open and not "hidden," so as in most societies, that's gotta be good.
Well, I haven't noticed that much of making out in public in Yereva. Come and take a look at what's going on here in Budapest, there're not only making out in parks, but in the streets, in public transportation, and anywhere else. loool, can u imagine people making out in "marshrutkas".
LOL... I remember my sister's first day in public high school.. she came running to us saying, "Ammmaaaaa, they are just making out in the halls!!!" ... Nareg jan... guh badahee :)
I looooove that we see that kind of thing in Armenia. Better than what we see here....going out and seeing Armenian girls doing the same with odars...
Better than going out with odars?!?!?
Really, this is ridiculous. Let people go out with whoever they like. Interestingly, the more intelligent among local Armenians understand that the gene pool here is now so limited that by staying within the same ethnic group is bad for the future.
At the same time, many intelligent Armenian girls PREFER odars because the mentality is more advanced than Armenian guys. I suppose some Armenian guys prefer odars for the same reason, but especially among the educated women here, they don't like the Armenian mentality among guys.
As I said, let people go out with whoever they like, and also, let them do whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the personal lives of others.
>the more intelligent among local Armenians understand that the gene pool here is now so limited that by staying within the same ethnic group is bad for the future.
Um, I'd just like to point out that intelligence is measured by how high ABOVE 100 your I.Q. is, not how far BELOW that mark it falls. Anyone worried about a limited gene pool is NOT intelligent...
"I looooove that we see that kind of thing in Armenia. Better than what we see here....going out and seeing Armenian girls doing the same with odars..."
- how completely insensitive and ungrounded. What about the Armenians who are half Armenian and half "odar", this is reason why so many struggle with identity. Whilst portraying your argument as something of a forward thinking one "I love whats going on..." , you are shooting yourself in the foot because such a narrow minded comment about odars is really very backward.
Yes I agree it is good that Armenians do marry Armenians, but in my experience there is no issue with them not - and I think although people may think we should all "stick together" its very insensitive.
Not so. Not so at all although I did not equate intelligence with dating odars. However, a limited gene pool is bad for any ethnic race and Armenians are small in number, especially in the Republic.
Anyway, some items on genetics and intelligence:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1397967,00.html
http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq03.htm
http://www.scq.ubc.ca/?p=292
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ
http://149.72.28.15/faculty/Perring/woods.htm
http://www.nutri.com/wn/gp.html
Incidently, you can see the problem in very small ethnic communities quite vividly, and especially when members of that community develop very fierce racial characteristics, especially in terms of physical appearance.
Anyway, the point is not that race determines intelligence, but a limited gene pool does. You can see this in inbreeding, for example. Anyway, the main point is this extreme focus on not dating or marrying odars is unfortunate.
Still, the argument about a limited gene pool in Armenia was used to suggest that it is imperative for ethnic Armenians from the Diaspora to marry local Armenians in order to add diversity and to make the genetic pool larger.
And more:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/026.html
http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/jpr_rghrs.html
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/canadian_journal_of_sociology/v031/31.3reuter.html
I read the Wikipedia and Guardian articles - since I recognized them, and saw *nothing* suggesting anything like what you are saying. There are millions of Armenians in the world, and the Diaspora is quite young. If you live in a community of 10 people for 3 generations I can see a problem, but then if that is what you're talking about, we have airplanes now... not just horse and buggy.
Also, I really don't care to continue this, so you can have the last word if you like, I'm done.
I don't think the genetics is a problem in Armenia - we do not usually marry close relatives. Had we been Muslims, or trailer park dwellers, then we might have such a problem.
As for us dating or marrying non-Armenians, I do not think it's a problem as long as the kids retain their Armenian identity. The hostile attitude of some Armenians to these kids will not help at all in encouraging these kids embrace the Armenian in them.
Nazarian you are correct about half Armenians not embracing the Armenian in them. I am half Armenian and outside Armenia I am accepted as "Armenian" ( the percentage of my genetics that is Armenian is not important ) yet as soon as I go to the place where I should be accepted I consistently get comments like "only half" Armenian, or " you speak Armenian well considering your half Armenian" . Whilst I have managed to retain my Armenian language skills, my youngest siblings haven't and at every Armenian gathering we get the cheeky idiot with no tact saying "why dont you kids speak Armenian"..Is this going to encourage them to embrace their culture?> I think not.
I understand Armenians often have a lack of tact, and usually have good intentions, but , seriously, we need to stop being so narrow minded. Identity is not always about how well you can recite the Armenian alphabet and then you insult the country and its locals on the next breath. Armenian identity is about when you are asked where you originated you can proudly say I'm Armenian- half, quarter, tenth. ...whatever.
I think the argument for marrying an odar should be separated from those Armenians that live in the diaspora from those that live in the Republic of Armenia.
For example, i'm OK with armenians marrying odars if they live in the republic of Armenia.
However, based on experience we can say that Armenians that do marry odars in the diaspora tend to lose their Armenian identity over time, especially in cities with little Armenian inhabitants, but also happens in cities despite having large Armenian population, such as Glendale. Of course there are exceptions, but we can clearly say that vast majority of Armenians marrying odars tend to have kids that identify less with being Armenians, and their kids even less.
So I'm generally against Armenians marrying odars in the Diaspora unless they decide to move to Armenia where their Armenian identity will be guaranteed for generations to come. So all talk about increasing gene pool is useless if the new gene pool doesn’t identify strongly with being Armenian and does not in any way give back to Armenia or its causes.
I agree with Harmick completely, there are so many Armenians out there with no tact, and who say really the most unhelpful/stupid things to complete strangers. They even think they are being nice saying you speak good Armenian "for a half-Armenian". Amazing. And why would a kid not speak Armenian except if it was not taught to them? So yes, these sort of comments drive people away and hurt the community.
Pedros point is quite valid, except that being Armenian is not so important to many, and there will be many more marriages with odars in the Diaspora that do not move to Armenia. What we CAN do however is make it very easy for kids to reconnect with the Armenian community by having cool youth groups, great summer programs in Armenia, etc. A lot of this is in place already, and we need to get the word out better...
Armenians must stick with their own kind. Otherwise we will get eaten up by the "international"gene pool that is growing daily. Sorry, but the cold reality is the Armenian gene pool has alreay been coopted outside Armenia in just 3 generations. The same fate awaits Armenia if cross-cultural bridge-making goes too far...
Falling in love, loving, making love, living together, marrying or not, kissing in the open in the town, or anywhere else for that matter - these are things in an individual's domain.
Having an idea or a personal opinion about such things is great. Who hasn't?
But I would let the individuals be free from all kinds of moral teachings or direct interventions in their lives and behaviour. As long as they don't kiss YOU against your will, of course :)
Haha... Perhaps my views seem a little "dzayrahegh" (extreme) for some people. I don't believe Armenians should marry odars. That's very simple for me.
However, if you know me, you know that I'm not the kind of person who judges or treats Armenians who are "half/quarter/one-eighth" any differently. Everyone is free to make their own choices, and I don't impose my opinion on ANYONE. (I have many many friends and cousins who are married to odars or who are part-Armenian) I am only expressing my OWN opinion.
As for the "dked" (ignorant) people who make comments like the ones Harmick said... well... they are just that -- ignorant, whether it is intentional or not. The fact remains that we are in this melting pot, and unless we work HARD at making it a salad bowl instead.... we are going to lose ourselves. (and this is true for ANY culture)
And last but not least, something one of my professors said yeaaarrrrssss ago ... "There are more differences WITHIN cultures, than between them."
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