Monday, November 07, 2005

Three Turks... and 2015



Yesterday I attended a conference called "Three Turkish Voices on the Ottoman Armenians", organized by the UCLA Armenian Educational Foundation Chair. Three professors -- Taner Akcam (Univ. of Minnesota) who spoke about his new assessment of Ottoman documents, Elif Shafak (Univ. of Arizona) who spoke about Memory and Literature, and Fatma Muge Gocek (Univ. of Michigan) who spoke about the recent Istanbul conference on Ottoman Armenians.

My friend and I got there somewhat early (well-for Armenians...hahaha), and as it neared 2pm, the hall was PACKED! The first speaker began his presentation, as people sat all over the hall (a large science classroom), sitting on the stairs, behind the speaker on the podium, and even blocking all the doors. (And apparently, there were still a few hundred people outside). --Later they opened the hall next door and people were able to sit there and listen to the speakers.

Each presenter spoke about their research and their ideas. (As a disclaimer - they all said WAY more than I will be writing about - but I'm just putting down SOME of the stuff that stuck out in my head).

Taner Akcam presented his assessment of Ottoman documents which "prove" that a systematic Genocide did indeed take place, and that Armenian deportees were treated quite differently. He presented a part of the Young Turks' plan to re-shuffle the entire empire.... giving priority to Muslims. He spoke about how FAST the Armenian villages were repopulated after the Armenians were deported (often times in about a week or so), by bringing in Kurds who had to have already been well on their way. He pointed out how detailed and specific these plans were, and how carefully they were carried out. For example, he mentioned that each repopulated area should not have more than 5-10% of the same ethnic group (i.e. kurds, Armenians, etc.) - and the main idea behind that was so that assimilation could take place much faster. He spoke of documents which prove the plans of taking Armenian girls, marrying them to muslim men, and what the last speaker said as a sociologist proved this - because she said recently, many turks have found out that their grandmothers were in fact Armenian.

Elif Shafak spoke about memory and the important of oral tradition - as well as literature. She said that she focused on Armenian female writer, Zabel Yesayan. She pointed out the transition of Zabel's writing. Zabel belonged to an upper class family in Istanbul, and had studied in Europe and had all these independent ideas. After the 1909 Adana massacres, she was sent by the Patriarch to report what was left in Adana. Prof. Shafak points out the change in Zabel, after she goes to Adana and sees the horrific sights, but stresses that even then Zabel believed that Armenians and Turks could live together. Later, after escaping the Genocide and living in Baku, Zabel realizes that what she believed earlier was not possible. She changes from this liberal, independent woman, to someone who identifies and belongs with the collective - Armenians. Prof. Shafak also talks about oral history, and how an 18 year old Armenian today has a CLEAR connection with history, but for an 18 year old Turk, history is abstract... it is not as REAL as it is for the Armenian. She spoke about how literature shapes the identities of people - and brought the example of a famous Turkish writer (didn't catch his name) who would write stories about these fictional nationalistic characters - and the basis of the stories are to promote nationalistic ideals in readers. The professor also asks herself about the reactions (or non-actions) of the Turkish intellectuals living in Turkey, during the time that all the Armenian intellectuals were taken away and killed.

Fatma Muge Gocek spoke about the recent Istanbul Conference on Ottoman Armenians. She told the story of how the conference was to take place on another occasion, but was canceled. She spoke of her personal experience as a Turkish scholar, being attacked by journalists in her own country. Also, how her parents' friends reacted to her speak on "behalf" of Armenians. She had even been approached by Turkish journalists, asking her how much she gets paid from Armenian diasporans for telling all these lies. (and she was laughing - saying, please we should let her know which account we are putting all this money in.. :)

All the speakers were very interesting, and it was encouraging to hear Turkish scholars speaking openly and frankly about the Armenian Genocide. I did notice a few things and have a few thoughts...

a) The second speaker, Elif Shafak, didn't say the word "genocide" once! I'm not saying she meant to do that, but it's just something little that I noticed.
b) Both Taner Akcam and Fatma Muge Gocek spoke about how they believe the Genocide will be recognized by the Turkish government by 2015 (coincidence that it's 100 years after the Genocide, or the year they expect to enter the EU??).
c) Even though I'm ---well there are no words to the feeling -- that I got to see (and will see) an independent Armenia AND the recognition of the Armenian Genocide in my lifetime... I can't help to think about what recognition will bring for our people - not only in the diaspora but in Armenia as well. How will the government of Armenia lead the nation and its people abroad, during this VERY critical time??? I also wonder about the next Armenian elections. Those are going to be the leaders who will rule at the time of recognition....what will be their opinions? what will be their actions?
d) Also, a question was asked to the speakers about reparations and our lands.... but there was no time for them to answer. It made ME think about it. Will we be given what is rightfully ours? Will other Armenians demand reparations and lands?
e) Fatma Muge Gocek, said at the end of her presentation that she could only wish that in the future... in 2015, when the Genocide is recognized, Armenians and Turks could finally live together in a democratic Turkish nation. Is that REALLY possible? And regardless of whether it's possible or not... are we willing to do that?

There are sooooo many questions and thoughts. But, somehow I think the steps are being taken in the right direction. I believe it is up to us, and especially the ruling Armenian government to decide where those steps should be headed. So much more to say.... not enough time to blog them all :)

For now...
TSUH! :)
p.s. - since the comments are turned off, if you'd like to comment, you can email me at shooshigavakian@hotmail.com :)

15 Comments:

Anonymous Mr. E said...

Looks like the comments are back up. This is the person who saw you at the conference. :)

Yeah, it's strange how Shafak never used the term "genocide." Perhaps she was intimidated by the Turks in the audience? I know there were some.

9:08 AM  
Anonymous Vartan said...

Can we move on from this current series of Genocide topics on this blog. The Holidays are fast approaching, and I feel it's the perfect time to celebrate life and lady-liberty. Thanks.

9:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Elif Shafak said that there were some Turkish authors who provoted nationalism... There used to be similar Armenian authors too, such as Raffi (Hagop Melik Hagopian) and many others.

2:32 AM  
Blogger Arsineh said...

yev eench?

2:47 AM  
Blogger shooosh said...

Yes, there were Armenian nationalistic authors too, but I think her point was that even SHE was shaped with those novels by that Turkish author, and so were generations of Turks. (Perhaps, in a way trying to give us a clue into the psyche of a Turk our age).

11:19 AM  
Anonymous Vartan said...

I think young Turks of today don't really have time to think about what happend in 1915. They are too busy working for their capatlistic pipe dreams. Recognition, will never happen.

11:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I fail to understand why the Armenian Diaspora will be happy if Turkey recognizes the Armenian Genocide due to Turkey's relation with the European Union.If I were an Armenian I would feel extremely insulted that something about my history which I profoundly believe effects my identity is subject to international bargaining.
Besides it is obvious that it is not going to be the result of a genuine apology,it is purely political and will be a result of an agenda.
Turkey will eventually say ;OK. you want us to apologize so that we will join the EU ? what the hell,sure we apologize and can we discuss the next agenda please......this is what will happen because EU is always more important to Turkey than the Armenian Genocide.Most Turks of today couldn't really care less about what happened in 1915 and they never will in the future either but if the international diplomacy demands so they won't mind issuing an apology which actually means zero in practical terms...also forget about any reparations,nobody will be able to pressure Turkey into it because the stakes are simply too high,there was a world war between 1914-1918 which involved many nations and nobody will come out with a verdict that Turkey should pay any financial or land compensation,the whole suggestion may bite back many nations in return and there will be an international chaos.Nobody ,none of the nations who participated in the WW1 , certainly not the UK,not Russia,not Germany/Austria ,not France, not Greece,nobody will come out clean as a result.

11:17 PM  
Anonymous Lori said...

Anonymous, by your own stating you are not an Armenian so it is understandable that you wouldn't be able to comprehend what goes on in the psyche of us diasporans. However, it appears by your presence on this website that you are interested so let me give you some insight if I may...

The first thing you should note is that many of us aren't Diasporans by choice. My grandfather and his brother lost both their parents and all their siblings at a VERY young age, were driven out of their village and ended up in foreign lands. Until you have grown up KNOWING what happened to your ancestors and having it hit as close to home as having to hear your own grandfather cry while recounting what happened to him during those horrid days, you won't understand what it was like for us diasporans to grow up in foreign lands amidst the knowledge of why and how we ended up here to begin with.

It was my grandfathers DREAM to be able to return to Armenia but he was not allowed to do so during his lifetime. A couple summers ago while I was in Armenia (something my grandfather didn't get to do) I meet his brother's son and his children. I'm sure you wouldn't understand what It was like to meet my blood, who I look like, speak like, share a surname with, to sit there in our homeland sharing stories about my grandfather then becoming sad when we realized why we had been apart all this time....Seeing my uncle cry as he told me how his mother was orphaned as a baby, taken by a kurdish family, later recognized by her aunt and taken back and re-taught Armenian... This is all part of being a decendant of a genocide survivor. It has affected ME. It has affected my family, my country, my people. This has been our reality for 90 years and to this day we are dealing with the affects in our daily lives. Can you see how frustrating it can be that people DENY that these events happened?

Would you have asked the survivors of the Holocaust after WWII what the point is and posed the same questions to them as you do to us? Recognition, reparations and returning the lands, WILL NOT fix 90 years of pain. I'm sure you don't understand what's it's like to live with the knowledge that this happened to your people around the world don't think it did. Putting an end to the DENIAL might keep similar events from happening elsewhere, it might help my children not have to know the pain my family has known for three generations, and it might help those who perished for simply being Christians finally rest in peace.

12:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again I am not convinced about your answer,if Turkey recognizes the Armenian genocide this will hardly worth the effort from the Armenian side because Turkey will recognize it so that they may continue on working with their own policy,not because they really want to apologize,I have been to Turkey and lived/worked there for 3 years and believe me nobody in Turkey cares about what happened in 1915,the past is all nuisance to them. Talking to the regular Turks on the street I am convinced that they have more important goals and they couldn't care less if their government apologizes or not because they themselves do not feel the need to apologize which actually is more important than what the Turkish government thinks and does..They are so uninterested in this issue that they don't even feel the need to discuss anything related to the Armenian genocide.
They may acknowledge the genocide to pursue their own agenda and they may even use the said apology to their won benifit.In the end you may end up with nothing but dissapointment.
I say don't set your hopes too high because nothing may come out of Turkey's acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide as you hope.

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Lori said...

I think you misunderstand me, I don't expect a genuine apology from Turkey. Anyone who expects that is just ridiculous. Who is kidding who here? How can an apology 90 years later be genuine?

The point here is, I don't consider Turkey a "civilized" nation. If Turkey was admitted into the EU without the Genocide issue being a LARGE provision, it would be yet another slap in the face. A Muslim nation being granted memberhsip into the EU eventhough they slaughtered Christians...would just make everything worse, so even if they do it for the wrong reason of advancing their own agendas, who cares why they're doing it as long as they're having to do it? I personally don't care if it's sincere. It's atleast holding them publicly and morally accountable.

9:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A Muslim nation being granted memberhsip into the EU eventhough they slaughtered Christians"

That is a rather strange statement ,many christians also slaughtered non-christians if you remember,if you look at nations past histories hardly anyone is innocent.

also;

" It's atleast holding them publicly and morally accountable."

No it doesn't,legally and morally it does not,why would someone feel accountable
for something which he has no control over and happened long way in the past? which people of the year 2005 should be forced to feel accountable for anything that has happened generations ago?
example,there has been great fuss over Japan during the WW2 , Japan has not even offered an apology for the horrible treatment of the WW2 prisoners of war neither to the UK or the USA even if they actually legally lost the WW2 .
Both the UK and the USA do not dare to push the issue further because they are scared shitless that they will piss off Japan.
It all comes down to International balance of powers.International diplomacy may urge Turkey to issue a statement of apology but nobody in his right mind will ever ask Turkey to do more than issuing a statement.
I think we all need to be realistic .

2:05 PM  
Anonymous Lori said...

I think we are both being realistic, in your realism you believe Turkey issuing a statement admitting the genocide won't make any difference and you're entitled to believe that... but as an Armenian and grandchild of a survivor, I feel that Turkey being politically pressured to issue a "statement" no matter how pointless and empty it may be is better than NOTHING at all.

Still, I do find your interest in the issue commendable.

2:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if turkish people did really not give a shit about the armenian genocide, they would stop bothering us in every armenian site in every place of the world

12:01 AM  
Anonymous Aya said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:27 PM  
Blogger The Siren Queen said...

i think the important thing with turkey issuing an apology or recognizing that yes, certain events took place in those years and that yes, those events constitute a genocide is that it is a step toward something bigger. it is a step toward awareness. even though i don't need any one to validate for me that such a thing happened, it is important in the role that history plays, in accessing documents, re-writing a history in which the Armenian Genocide is absent. educating people, coming more to the surface. i always wonder what it says of the world in which we currently reside that the first genocide of the 20th century is being denied to this day. in a way that can account for the genocides that still go on today. not that it is the only reason that we can point to and say.

i don't think that the simply words of apology will do anything in themselves. but it will be a step toward something bigger.

what does it mean to slaughter a people simply for belonging to a specific ethnicity or religion and then deny that it happened? or try to minimize what happened?

i think its crazy.

10:13 PM  

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