Statue Of Ataturk In Rome?
Could this AZG article be right? Rome wouldn't even allow a mosque until a few years ago, why on earth would it erect a statue of Ataturk (Mustafa Kemal)?
AZG Armenian Daily #210
18/11/2005
Italians have decided to erect the statue of Ataturk. We should revolt
about this tragic decision and write to the Mayor of Rome.
The e-mail address of the Mayor of Rome Walter VERTRONI is:
w.veltroni@comune.roma.it
AZG Armenian Daily #210
18/11/2005
Italians have decided to erect the statue of Ataturk. We should revolt
about this tragic decision and write to the Mayor of Rome.
The e-mail address of the Mayor of Rome Walter VERTRONI is:
w.veltroni@comune.roma.it
posted by Raffi K. at 8:01 AM
13 Comments:
What's the problem with Ataturk? He was nowhere near Eastern Turkey in 1915 (he was defending Gallipoli), and later as president took a very pragmatist, peaceful approach in foreign affairs.
yes what is the problem with Ataturk?
I know you are not happy with anything that is good for Turkish people.
you puppets are being used by anti-turkish groups, when are you gonna get this into your heads?
Give up 90 years old politic claims, and live the moment.
I just can't understand how some of you even say "we will get our lands back"! What lands are you talking about?
And you also think you will get billions of dollars compensation, what a pity to you.
You can earn that money just by fixing your relations with Turkey and other neighbours by just focusing on todays problems instead of 90 year old historic political and racist lies.
What is the problem with Ataturk??? Now I know the Turkish govt has its very own special fairytale version of history which it invents, but in the real world, Ataturk was no angel. He drove the Armenians out of Cilicia in the 20s and never allowed any Armenian refugees to return, instead enacting laws that considered them traitors for leaving their homes, as if it was voluntary. He also used pretexts to invade the tiny Republic of Armenia and steal a big chunk of it - threatening to take all of it if the Armenian troops had not remarkably driven them back.
Learn your REAL history instead of living in a fantasyland and constantly harassing us. You want to live in the moment? Open the fucking border with Armenia. Include Armenians on the history of Ani you have put up by the ruins of our ancient capital. Stop lying about the past, so we can put it behind us once and for all.
Uff, my patient sof you anonymous commenters is getting so thin...
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hey, can't you leave your hateress behind, and live in present time.. Can't you look objectively to the past and can't you see that Ataturk is a model for the poor countries against the colonist. As a human everybody must respect him and his struggle for his country.
He was actually a colonist whenever it suited him (Cilicia, Kars, Ardahan), and anti colonialist wherever it suited him (Istanbul, Izmir). I am living in the present time, and just calling things as they were. You're the one who is blinded by your nationalism (not to mention blinded by your governments censorship). I don't have to respect him at all... he drove my grandfather out of Marash once and for all, never allowing his return. So who has hatred for whom?
The so called 'fairytale' is not Turkish goverments tale, it's the Turkish peoples tale, why can't you just accept that? If your so strongly against this 'tale', you're against this idea and way of thinking and I guess that makes you anti-democratic and even racist. It is a tale of history and of course I'm not sure if its hundert percent correct, it's only a matter of science and that of history is not my field. By the way, when I say Turkish people I mean Turks including Armenian Turks -in Bakirköy, Istanbul I have some friends- Kurdish Turks, Jewish Turks, Christian Turks, Muslim Turks, ateist Turks etc. Turks from Asia looked like far-eastern people, we are a geographically and genetically rich Country and well, genetics is my field.
It is a Turkish govt fairytale as long as the government censors whatever it likes and lies about what it knows. When Orhan Pamuk is being tried for saying something as simple as a million Armenians died, then you cannot tell me that you can freely think or state anything except for the governments fairy tale version of events. My children grandparents were not soldiers, were not terrorists, were not anything of the sort just like the rest of their families who did not survive... and when they were "relocated" as your government likes to put it, they were not only not fed and sheltered, but they were purposely not allowed to take necessities, prevented from getting their own food, and attacked by the Turkish soldiers themselves. The goal of all of this was abundantly clear, Kanat. I suspect that you suspect I am right, and pride in your nation prevents you from admitting it. Times are changing though and the truth is even coming out in Turkey - sloooowly. You'll see.
Anyway, I appreciate that you signed your name, and were very civil. I hope you keep an open mind in the future as you are allowed to hear and read more in your country. I am not being insulting by saying this, it is sad to me that our countries are still not friendly, and I firmly believe that the entire blame lies in the hands of your governement, which is so fearly of the repercussions of admitting the truth, that they are sacrificing all decency and are embarassing themselves in the eyes of the world, and I suspect future generations of Turks...
i'm ilker..from Turkey-İstanbul.I can't understand your attitude.I know our people and your people don't get along together.Did you ever think why it is?Let me explain it shortly.
Turkish children are born with a huge hatred and Armenian children are same as ours.We don't even know why we hate each other that much.We don't like you and you don't like us..is that all??
Actually it's easy...do you have even one proof about that imaginary genocide??...no...and after our prime minister,Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN (i don't like him a lot) declared that all Turkish government archives are open for this argument...you still couldn't prove anything about your imaginary genocide.Didn't you get bored of this...?
I'm 15 years old and i can clearly say that i have a better look to the world than most of you.As you know, our lineage comes from Ottoman Empire.I don't mean Turkey=Ottoman.Probably most of you think like this.I'm just trying to say that during Ottoman Empire existence we all lived together.Without any differences...drinking the same water...eating the same food...People forget really fast.They made brohters enemy each other.Please open your eyes and see the truth.If we made a mistake we are sorry but talking about a genocide is so silly that i'm sure even most of you know that there is no genocide...
Keep reading Ilker - there is much more than "one proof" of the genocide...
http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Armenian_Genocide
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Well, again Orhan Pamuk:) Are you from US, no offense but your attitude reminds me of -for lack of a better term- the American ignorance- behaving like there are no people other than Americans and -if they remember them, like in your case- their ancestors and just to know what CNN shows etc. Oh well, I guess all people are like that, not just Americans, not just westerners, all people all over the world from China to South Africa. Naturally we care about our country first and we know our own culture. So when someone, some 'foreigner' -and that is YOU in this case- speaks about your country, its generally irritating, that has nothing to do with that stupid pride-of-a-nation thing you're talking about. Its irritating to see people not knowing much about other, distant cultures, especially if its your LIFE. (By the way I'm not talking about genocide yet) Its irritating to see people talk with CNN terms/ news. And of course, most probably I'm like that too, for instance I don't know much about, let's say, Korean Rock bands, you know what I mean? You talk about Orhan Pamuk. He has always been one of my favorite authors, probably since long before you even heard about him. So there is this trial, 'foreigners' hear about it and suddenly they begin to make judgments. OK, let me tell you, there is something you don't know about the Turkish justice system. It's SOFT. If you are judged for 3 years of prison and you're found guilty -Orhan Pamuk probably would not be, that is if he had been judged- you pay about 25-50$ and you go away. Death penalty was removed for EU, but it had already not been applied for about 20 years and I've never heard about anyone who stayed in prison for 25-30 years, even if he/ she was found guilty and should have been executed legally. Well, this system should be changed! (I'm against death penalty, of course) First the few remaining anti-democratic laws should be removed and than the punishments must be properly applied, that is if you kill someone with your car you should stay in prison as long as you have deserved. You see my point here? Orhan Pamuk should not have been judged for what he said -and he has not, actually- but if he had been judged and even if he was found guilty... No big deal for him. Just for the government. And if he had been found guilty, it would be a shame for the court, but no one in Turkey ever believed that he could be found guilty, this country is not some kind of a banana-democracy. (Oops, I did it. Wasn't this prejudice against South American/ Pacific countries?)
There are people who are too focused for one thing and these people consider that thing very important, they overrate it. These are generally fighters, they fight for rights of blind man who has lost one leg, they fight for the rights of the pregnant women to get extra plastic bags in the market etc. Armenian (only) diaspora really seems that way. And I'm sorry to say that but no one in Turkey really cares about that genocide thing, it's not and never been a part of our daily lives. Do not misunderstood and think of me as a cold-hearted bast*** or anything like that: I -and everybody I know- feel deeply sorry for the people, men, women and little children that were killed on this soil during the war. They were citizens of the former country on this land. Like our ancestors, they were citizens of that country, the same country, and in that country they were everywhere, in Istanbul as neighbors, doctors, artists, business men, and on the streets, in the palace, in government, everywhere. Everywhere in that country -the country WE rejected, we denied and fought! The palace was against Mustafa Kemal and his allies, that is, the public. Don't you really know these? Don't you? Or are you too focused?
It's a wide, open, beautiful and colorful universe! There are infinitely many things in it to focus on. Life breaths in and out and all you people just care about is POLITICS.
You talk about my suspicions. I have no suspicions about that matter: I'm sure that Armenians were killed. Do you really wanna know what I think? I think that it does NOT MATTER if it was a genocide! They were killed, they were people killed by people. It was a war and I care about WAR. War is always a genocide, WHAT IS RACE? You feel sorry for your ancestors, well, they were killed for (because of) money. By Turks, Kurds, British or French -does it matter? Yeah, honestly I don't care about genocide, no, not just about it, I care and I'm worried about all kinds of war, racism and hatred. When millions of Turks were killed in WWI, that was genocide, Algerian killed by French, genocide, Native Americans killed by European migrants, genocide, Iraq, today: Genocide. War. What is race? What are you fighting for? Just for one race, your race? Who are you? Are you 'Armenian'? Have you had a genetic test? I don't think that there is a significant genetic difference between your grand grandpa and mine -geography, that is, being in the same place, is the most important factor which determines the genetic resemblances. Of course there are other factors, language, religion, yet these are complex and they overlap, there -surely- are arab jews that are christian etc. Turkey and US are two examples that show maximum variety, this richness. What is race?
We are human, that's our race.
It took about two hours to write all these (thinking English is not my native language and by the way: sorry about the grammar) I don't thing that these words will affect you or your attitude or your choices significantly or at all. Still, I had to write them, I had to show my response. Whatever.
I think you're 'focused'.
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