Leaving Turkey
I must say I left with a not so great taste in my mouth. It seemed everybody was out to cheat us and trick us this time, so we headed back to Tiflis as fast as we could, which involved a night in the dump of a village of Posof. Whenever we were taking transport, exchanging money, or negotiating anything, and even at the border it seemed pretty clear we were getting a "special" price indeed. I didn't get a chance to talk to many locals about the Armenian thing, though at Ani I did ask the ticket guy why the huge sign did not mention Armenians anywhere, and as usual, he shrugged, then moved on to asking if we wanted to stay at a hotel he knows in Kars...
It is great being back in Tiflis, which I am enjoying. The more time I spend the more some of the differences are apparent to me. There just aren't the ridiculous Hummers and extremely expensive cars here, and strangely enough very few Nivas as well. The roads are pretty good though, so that might explain the Niva thing. There are noticeably more foreign cars though, like VWs and Fords. Crossing the street here is harder because of wider streets with fewer lights, and so people don't walk across all over like in Yerevan.
In the metro, like most other places, there is no Russian script, though you can see where the Russian letters were cut off of the walls. I find that sad in a city which prides itself on diversity and is multiethnic... even Armenia which is 98% Armenian did not remove the Russian letters. The metro is bigger though with over 2x as many stations and double the number of cars in use - lots of people use it to get around. I think Yerevan's metro needs to double the number of stops in order to be more useful as well.
One other interesting Georgia-Turkey note is the visible pipeline project. Massive sections of it seem to be underway still, right by the border... you have to see it to understand the scale of the project I think.
It is great being back in Tiflis, which I am enjoying. The more time I spend the more some of the differences are apparent to me. There just aren't the ridiculous Hummers and extremely expensive cars here, and strangely enough very few Nivas as well. The roads are pretty good though, so that might explain the Niva thing. There are noticeably more foreign cars though, like VWs and Fords. Crossing the street here is harder because of wider streets with fewer lights, and so people don't walk across all over like in Yerevan.
In the metro, like most other places, there is no Russian script, though you can see where the Russian letters were cut off of the walls. I find that sad in a city which prides itself on diversity and is multiethnic... even Armenia which is 98% Armenian did not remove the Russian letters. The metro is bigger though with over 2x as many stations and double the number of cars in use - lots of people use it to get around. I think Yerevan's metro needs to double the number of stops in order to be more useful as well.
One other interesting Georgia-Turkey note is the visible pipeline project. Massive sections of it seem to be underway still, right by the border... you have to see it to understand the scale of the project I think.
posted by Raffi K. at 12:23 PM
13 Comments:
No photos of the pipeline?
I heard from a Javakhktsi that the pipeline runs in a possible way not to go through Armenian owned lands. BP payes lots of money for the land and therefore Armenians dont benefit. the 2nd reason of this can be that BP doesnt feel secure maybe because one day Javakhk might take the road of self government.
I have a question for all Armenians that live in Armenia. Since a lot of the "pyoon" Hayastancis can't answer, maybe a Diasporan like Raffi can.... Why, why do Armenians from Armenia go to Turkey? Why.......?
If you mean for vacationing it's because it's cheap and well in general diaspora Armenians hold more of a grudge towards the turks than local Armenians.
It's good to see Georgian resorts attracting more and more locals for vacationing. This past summer Georgia was a more attractive place for locals to visit than Turkey.
Anonymous #1 - why not? I can think of a very wide array of reasons, but what exactly are you getting at?
How can you go to a country and contribute to their economy when they don't respect us "Armenians" as a human race? When their governemt pours in millions of dollars a year to deny crimes. A place where any talks of genocide results to imprisonment. Seems a little ironic to me.....
I can understand an average Hayastanci burger who prefers to spend his vaction in Turkey or Georgia. Those are beutiful countries and they have 'must see' places. We cannot limit ourself to Dilijan-Sevan-Tsaxkadzor only. We need to see world to opem our minds. Once Italy or France would become affordable to an average Yerevanci burger then they will forget about our neighbours.
Italy or France will never become affordable to any average person. lol
What's a burger?
Most of the people who go Turkey for vacation dont want to go there anymore. Maybe only the people who care about sun return.
Now people go to Georgia for Sun and Sea.
I didn't make that post, but a burgher is a citizen of a town or borough. Surprised you don't know.
is it burger or burgher?
less and less people go to turkey on vacation cause georgian black sea resorts are cheaper and because more and more locals are starting to realize was betrayal it is to go to turkey.
yes second last anonymous you are right about the burgher but the guy or girl wrote burger.
a hayastanci burger LOL
Hello all you faceless anonymous crowd. Turkey is a varied country with a lot to offer an inquisitive tourist. I found it very interesting. It wasn't touristic in the developed and target-marketed sense, though that can be found on the southern and western mediterranean coasts I guess. And it was more rugged the further east you go. (I went from the west coast opposite Greece to Instanbul, by boat to Samsun, then down through Yozgat and Sivas and east, with a side trip to Van, to Dogubayazit on the plain below towering Ararat before departing to Iran, all by bus. Dogubayazit was cold, dirty, stark, a bit of a dump, but in a dramatically beautiful setting. At the time crossing to the Soviet Union was out of the question or maybe I'd have gone. I've seen pictures of Ararat taken from someplace in Armenia nearby and there's really no distance involved, Ararat is equidistant (not much) from there or from Dogubayazit. It seems weird these places were, I guess still are, so separated while so unseparate. Turkey's border remains closed today as the Armenian border, same as when it was the Soviet border, doesn't it? Certainly as Raffi said, people trying to cheat or trick you as an outsider was not uncommon in Turkey. On the other hand that's all over the world. What was kind of unique was a certain over-attraction to a foreigner, beyond trying to squeeze him for money, but trying to test or taunt him to see how far it could go. A fascination that was excessive and perverse. Specifically, I remember getting off a bus in an eastern town and while walking through the streets in search of a hotel attracting a growing gathering of children following behind me. When I turned they would stop. If I approached they would scatter. But when I continued they too would resume their parade, chattering among themselves and calling to me in incomprehensible Turkish. I became mildly uncomfortable about it and perhaps they sensed it as they got bolder and yelled at me more and a few of them seemed to "lead" and next thing I knew rocks were whizzing by me. They were operating in a dog pack mentality and very energized by it. Challenging them made them pause and desist, but only till I turned back to my business when they turned back to taunts and rocks. As dogs behave when aggressive. I eventually found a hotel and safety. By the way, I deduced what "burg(h)er" meant but it's not in common enough usage (USA) to know it. I'm sure they know exactly what it means in Pittsburgh and Hamburg though.
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