Expired...
So I received a few emails threatening me to blog... lol I suppose I have been putting it off because there hasn't been anything really going on... but now that I think about it, I have so much to say! (this should not come as a shock to anyone who knows me) :)
First of all, let me say that I have become a www.myspace.com addict!!!! Yes, at work I have a myspace window open at all times, and check it often for comments from friends who are also at work and have myspace open. lol It's kind of retarded, but hey....
Well, this month we were "blessed" (pun intended) with the Vehapar's visit to Cali. Even though I didn't go to any of the churches or events, I did watch a couple of them on Horizon TV. Now, I am just as Christian as the next guy, but all I could think about while watching these ceremonies and all the MEN involved... is, 1) where are the women, and 2) why is all this necessary??? Now, to answer #1 - we all know that women in the Armenian church have been almost eliminated. I did some research and found that before the 1300's women were very well accepted as part of the church, and we even had female deaconesses (which I guess some der hayr in San Jose tried to bring back in the early 1990's---but didn't work cuz the girl got so harrassed by Armenians in the community, she had to quit). Deaconesses would be sort of the "right hand man" of the der hayr and would assist in being with the sick(dying), and even with christenings and funerals. I've always looked at Armenians as such a progressive azk, I mean look at all the revolutionary things we have done (i.e. - making our own alphabet, being the first Christians, women voters and having women in parliament during 1918 independence, etc.) but how is it that I feel we are going BACKWARDS as the years pass????? I was having a discussion about whether Armenian families are matriarchal or patriarchal - and from what we've seen - we had to conclude that we are sort of BOTH. (Even though most people would say patriarchal). But think about it - if the grandfather is dead, the next "head" of the family is the grandmother... no? Is there an "elder-archal"? And then of course the famous quote from the very famous "big fat greek wedding" comes to mind.... "the man is the head, the woman is the neck".... very true for our current Armenian families, I believe. ***Ok, I sort of digress***
So anyway, as I was saying about the Vehapar.... #2 - why is all this ceremonial stuff, all the gold, all the glitter necessary???? I understand that he is the highest in our church (at least the Antelias "tem"), but how many 10 pound gold necklaces does one man need? And yes, I know they are gifts.... but even THAT I have a problem with. The thousands of dollars spent on one of those could've been spent to purchase a new tractor for a village in Armenia - for more productive agricultural results. (ONE example) All those men in their suits, following him around... all the money that was collected.... I understand that church is important and needs money to exist in today's world - but I didn't see or hear (in the speeches made), anything SPIRITUAL, anything PROFOUND, anything UPLIFTING, anything ENCOURAGING, anything - period.
So those were my main 2 thoughts about that.
This weekend is my cousin's Bday... so the festivities has already been under way - and will continue throughout the weekend.... :) fun times!
Looks like I might be going to Armenia for a couple of weeks in November for a conference... excellent! It'll be a little "fix" to keep me going until the next trip (since I don't think I can afford to spend another new year's there--:( ---)
My AYF chapter is going to be celebrating its 10th anniversary this year... I'm trying to think of something original we can do instead of the regular barahantes scene. Any ideas???
TSUH! :)~
First of all, let me say that I have become a www.myspace.com addict!!!! Yes, at work I have a myspace window open at all times, and check it often for comments from friends who are also at work and have myspace open. lol It's kind of retarded, but hey....
Well, this month we were "blessed" (pun intended) with the Vehapar's visit to Cali. Even though I didn't go to any of the churches or events, I did watch a couple of them on Horizon TV. Now, I am just as Christian as the next guy, but all I could think about while watching these ceremonies and all the MEN involved... is, 1) where are the women, and 2) why is all this necessary??? Now, to answer #1 - we all know that women in the Armenian church have been almost eliminated. I did some research and found that before the 1300's women were very well accepted as part of the church, and we even had female deaconesses (which I guess some der hayr in San Jose tried to bring back in the early 1990's---but didn't work cuz the girl got so harrassed by Armenians in the community, she had to quit). Deaconesses would be sort of the "right hand man" of the der hayr and would assist in being with the sick(dying), and even with christenings and funerals. I've always looked at Armenians as such a progressive azk, I mean look at all the revolutionary things we have done (i.e. - making our own alphabet, being the first Christians, women voters and having women in parliament during 1918 independence, etc.) but how is it that I feel we are going BACKWARDS as the years pass????? I was having a discussion about whether Armenian families are matriarchal or patriarchal - and from what we've seen - we had to conclude that we are sort of BOTH. (Even though most people would say patriarchal). But think about it - if the grandfather is dead, the next "head" of the family is the grandmother... no? Is there an "elder-archal"? And then of course the famous quote from the very famous "big fat greek wedding" comes to mind.... "the man is the head, the woman is the neck".... very true for our current Armenian families, I believe. ***Ok, I sort of digress***
So anyway, as I was saying about the Vehapar.... #2 - why is all this ceremonial stuff, all the gold, all the glitter necessary???? I understand that he is the highest in our church (at least the Antelias "tem"), but how many 10 pound gold necklaces does one man need? And yes, I know they are gifts.... but even THAT I have a problem with. The thousands of dollars spent on one of those could've been spent to purchase a new tractor for a village in Armenia - for more productive agricultural results. (ONE example) All those men in their suits, following him around... all the money that was collected.... I understand that church is important and needs money to exist in today's world - but I didn't see or hear (in the speeches made), anything SPIRITUAL, anything PROFOUND, anything UPLIFTING, anything ENCOURAGING, anything - period.
So those were my main 2 thoughts about that.
This weekend is my cousin's Bday... so the festivities has already been under way - and will continue throughout the weekend.... :) fun times!
Looks like I might be going to Armenia for a couple of weeks in November for a conference... excellent! It'll be a little "fix" to keep me going until the next trip (since I don't think I can afford to spend another new year's there--:( ---)
My AYF chapter is going to be celebrating its 10th anniversary this year... I'm trying to think of something original we can do instead of the regular barahantes scene. Any ideas???
TSUH! :)~
posted by shooosh at 12:01 AM
29 Comments:
According to Armenian Apostolic Christianity, clergymen have to do everything to make themselves look like Jesus. For example, the beard is necessary... But since priests and the 2 Catholicoi can't perform miracles like Jesus, they have to use something in order to amaze people, or to catch their attention. That's why the Vehapar is so decorated.
And since beards are necessary, we can't have women-priests, or ''der-mayrs''.
Why Armenian girls can't have heards?
Sorry beards?
lol very funny.... but i'm talkin LOORCH u guys! ... p.s. - i have a few good female-beard-growing candidates.
A lot of Armenian girls on th eeast coast have beards, how else can they stand their cold winter.
We weren't the first Christians. We were the first country to adopt Christianity as its state religion.
Lol...I couldn't help it. That comment about 10 pound gold necklaces...I just kept picturing an Armenian Mr. T! Now I know I'm going to hell!
I think all the glitter is actually (almost) necessary. In the Diaspora, the Catholicoi act as heads of state -- much like the Queen of England is head of state of all the Commonwealth countries. This is especially true for Western Armenians.
Anyway, without all the glitter and the gold, the Catholicoi would be just another 2 der hayrs, and they would not be the unifying force that they are. These regular visits they make to communities around the globe are nothing more than to reinvigorate Diasporan communities, and in order to so reinvigoriate, we need to see the glitter and gold.
Yes I know we were the fist state to accept christianity, but that's a longer sentence.... :)
And Karnig, I just don't understand why there isn't MORE to offer. For example, why don't I feel reinvigorated? Actually, I'm quite frustrated.
Shoosh, I was kind of trying to say that these visits aren't really religious, but more cultural. To give Armenians a point of reference, a jolt to their identity, so they'll remain Armenians, and ensure the longevity of the Church.
So if you feel frustrated from the religious standpoint, then maybe this is why.
But anyway, I read his interview with Asbarez, and he seemed very concerned with promoting Armenian schools, preventing assimilation, etc. And it dawned on me then -- assimilation means the end of the Antelias Catholicosate.
Anonymous said...."they have to use something in order to amaze people, or to catch their attention. That's why the Vehapar is so decorated." That's the saddest thing I've heard. That makes them sound like Christmas trees! They need to decorate themselves to AMAZE us? I'm not amazed or amused.
On the contrary I find the bling and flasy expensive cars disgusting and distracting.
If they grow beards to resemble Jesus, maybe I missed the part of the bible that mentions Jesus rolled in a Benz!
You know what would be AMAZING? If our clergy remained humble and simple and just about the religion.
Shoosh why doesn't your AYF chapter for it's 10th Anniversary do something "revolutionary" and host a large scale youth forum about the role of the Armenian Church in our youth's lives. I wonder if the invited religious leaders would be down to earth enough to show up and acutally invest their time into getting to know the youth on a personal level, conversing with us and answering our questions about OUR church and OUR religion. (The way the Vehapar did in a sense during the '97 Panagoum in Armenia)They aren't too approachable or accessible to us otherwise.
You know who was AMAZING? That diasporan clergyman who died a few months ago (his name escapes me now). I didn't know him, I learned about him upon his death, by reading about his life's work in the newspaper and by attending his memorial services. He had spent his life the way a true man of religion should (WITH HIS PEOPLE, SERVING THEM) He was loved and respected by villagers in Armenia and Diasporans. He was involved with Land & Culture, and he was one of the few who went to Javakh to baptise our brothers and sisters who hadn't been baptised. Hearing about his life inspired me and AMAZED me. I didn't know him yet he touched my life and I have a deep respect for him and the way he lived his life. A true leader leads by example and his "example" is one I will choose to keep with me. I can't say that for many others. It's sad that individuals like him are few and far between in our religious ranks. If we had more figures like him to set a moral example for us we would be better served.....
I love our church, its history, our badarak.... all of it, I'm just a little disallusioned by the methods our religious "leaders" have chosen to "lead" by....(can you tell?) : )
Getse death threats to those who aren't logging! :-)
Lori... That der hayr's name was Father Mesrob Ashjian. You're so right... THAAAAAAT is the way to represent us. Everytime they show the interview with him, I'm GLUED to the TV, anxious to hear what he had to say - and sorry that I didn't know him when he was around.
I suppose the sad reality is that perhaps the majority of Armenians SHOULD be represented by a benz and gold chains! I've written about this before... I don't see how our church is the backbone of our people, if their values are set in such material posessions... So if the arachnort didn't roll in with a benz, we'd think LESS of him? (I don't know how that's possible at this point).
Maybe other people don't care???
He was not Der Hayr, but Srpazan. He was down to earth holy man. He was also for many years Primate of ARF Church on East Coast in United States before He came to Armenia to serve His people. I had chance to meet him couple of times and He was always ready to listen to youth and do what He could.
what's ARF Church?
The other Armenian Church that seperate from Ech. in 1933.
Is this really true? The Cilician Church separated in 1933 and created its own Catholicos???
The ARF church...
Does anyone else not see how twisted all this thing has become?
I mean, just mentioning that our TWO Gatoghigoses are unifying factors is the biggest irony of it all.
The Church is sadly the perfect representation of the current state of the Armenian diaspora: materialistic and divided for personal gains.
vrouyr wrote: "the current state of the Armenian diaspora: materialistic and divided for personal gains"
raffi replies: my god, you're making it sound like we're normal humans!
Unfortunately, that is how most ppl are. that is why communism cannot work.
(that is why communism cannot work on a large scale by force that is...)
Yes, ARF wanted Armenian flag to hang in Church, but Church resisted and Srpazan at time was stabbed by pro-ARF person in Church during badarak and died. This was 1933 in New York and after the Church split.
There are some big factual mistakes going on... the Cilician church was founded in Sis -- its not an ARF church, its not a "new" church. And it wasn't founded in 1933.
Deliberate misinformation. Both Etchmiadzin and CIlicia were centers of the church way before the founding of the ARF.
Raffi.. God knows how many hundreds of millions of Catholics are able to have a single pope. We, on the other hand, actually try to prove that we need two Gatoghigos-s? Nothing more than party politics..
yes, hundreds of millions of Catholics are under one pope, and hundreds of other protestants broke away from the Catholic church... I'm not saying we shouldn't unify the church in western Europe and the Americas - I'm just saying Armenians are human, and materialism and personal gain are problems for everyone... it is NOT only typical of the Armenian Diaspora as you imply...
"A split occurred within the United States membership of the Armenian Apostolic Church in 1933, when ARF sympathizers assassinated the Armenian archbishop of New York. Two factions remained distinct in the United States in the early 1990s."
http://www.country-studies.com/armenia/religion.html
The protestants broke off for theologic reasons. That argument is therefore invalid in my books.
I did not imply that materialism and personal gain are only problems that the Armenian diaspora has. I did say, however, that our church is a good representation of our type of those problems.
Vrouyr: On your point one, the protestants broke off in a great part due to the materialism of the church :-)
On point two, fair enough... I was just pointing out that it is a wide problem, and as much as I also hate it, I wanted to put it in perspective...
lol, point one still does not apply then, as both Echmiadzin and Antelias are quite fond of the bling. :P
I understand what you are saying (and I think that is mutual). These past few weeks in the Montreal community have just been frustrating. The Armenians here have become more and more polarized as of late, and it's simply idiotic. I do think, however, that it is only a matter of time (and very little time) that the youth finally get things settled.
Reader,
There were comments about the " Attorney for NAMBLA represents the Turks (October 31, 2005)" post on this site but the editor of this site deleted them! Just because she/she wants to believe what he/she already believes ?!?!
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