Housing and the Worst Armenian CD Cover Nominee #2
Is it me, or can I not see the sexy bitch factor in Paul Baghdadlian here on the left. The Worst Armenian CD Cover Nominee #2 is now up with some more reviews on my new blog, Armenian Music Review
Pure Parseghian Records. New Reviews every Tuesday, new Worst Armenian CD Covers every Sunday.
I continue to find the issue of housing in Armenia fascinating and particularly enjoyed Der Hova's log as well as Onnik Krikorian, Raffi Kojian, etc comments string. As a Diasporan who visits about once a year, I am always surprised to find so much activity in the real estate sector upon my visit. The build up is really amazing to see. Since I have some close friends that live in Armenia and Diaporans who visit often and have purchased property there over the years, it seems only natural that there is a new housing boom. The fact that there are displaced residents and people who can't afford to buy a place in Armenia seems to be a somewhat universal problem. But, since jobs are so scarce, traditional mortgages don't exist on a widespread scale, and a wide divide between rich and poor in Armenia, it seems to be an uphill battle for any resident to own. And, in many cases, for Diasporans since they have to put down cash in full to purchase. However, I thought that under the Soviet system, every family was assigned an apartment (sometimes two, with dacha's). Thus, in theory, everyone once owned an apartment converted into a condo, overnight. Obviously, times got very tough and people were forced to sell cheap to leave Armenia and find their future elsewhere, etc. So, I really don't have a full grasp on issues that are local to Armenia, or just real estate growing pains, inflation, and housing booms that have hit many areas of the world. To be sure, you can't buy a $20,000 condo in downtown Yerevan anymore with a fully renovated home and all the latest bells and whistles like you could 5 years ago. Those who did certainly risked losing their investment during times that were not as prosperous, took a chance and made a great choice.
My wife and I want to live in San Francisco at some point in our lives. While on vacation there this past year, we decided to look at some 1 and 2 bedroom condos in the city. They start at around $600K and move up from there. We won't be moving there anywhere soon and would have to rent in the Bay Area.
Yesterday, on a beautiful Saturday in Boston, we decided to go with a broker and look for places in Boston to maybe upgrade from our own 1 bedroom condo in Dorchester ( a section of Boston). Two bedroom condos in Dorchester (a rough, but, up and coming artsy multicultural area of Boston) start at around $300K in one of those triple decker deals. Mind you, Dorchester is no Back Bay, South End, or Brookline. It is one of the toughest areas of the city, however there is a rush of investment and gentrification going on here. So, we have to stay put for now, even though our place has gone up about 25% in one year.
posted by Raffi at 3:52 AM
38 Comments:
Hmm, that 25% would buy a nice place in the center of Yerevan ;-)
And yes, every family had a home in Soviet times, and for the vast majority that is still the case. Most homes were overcrowded, which has eased a bit due to emigration. In the end though, yes, times are very rough still, and for many it is not possible to buy a new place in Yerevan, but I would not say that is unusual as your log about San Francisco shows.
One other point I'd like to mention is that any Armenian in the world can always take up a free house, land, cow and pigs in Karabakh. Maybe not for everyone, but it is still quite cool. Plus there are incentives for breeding lots of kids :-)
Hey Raf,
Believe me, I think about that 25% everyday and how it can buy me and my wife a pad in the Stan. However, there appears to be a possible opportunity for me to switch careers and do something very Armenian related in the arts. Non profit, based in Armenia 3 months out of the year, and very interesting stuff. We shall see...
-Meneshian
Paul is one of the corniest, most annoying Armenian (or non-Armenian) singers out there. How he has lasted so long and actually earned respect is waaaaaaay beyond my understanding.
Homelessness is starting to become a real problem. As for Karabakh, I don't think anyone can force someone from a city to move to an unrecognized republic which has its own problems with landmines and uncertainty about its future status or even if the peace will hold 5, 10 or 20 years into the future. Migration away from Karabakh is also a problem.
The solution is low cost housing, jobs, mortgages, increased tax collection from the oligarchs and all the rest of it. In the meantime, most of the bright young Armenians still think of leaving and given the chance, will.
On the other side, I have single friends in Yerevan (locals) who have moved out of their overcrowded homes and since they have jobs which pay them almost $200/month, they are able to be room mates and rent in the Avan area.
Never saw that before! :) For every minus, there is a plus....
It's ok that Yerevan is getting expensive.. let's think suburbs! No one lives in Downtown L.A.! And how many people can afford living in Manhattan? It's normal.
As for Paul... EW EW EW!!!
One more thing... if people CHOOSE to be poor and live in the city, rather than take advantage of being assisted in villages/Kharapagh, I think it is purely BY CHOICE! They'd rather be poor in Yerevan than work the land??
Has anyone ever wondered about how Paul came to speak Armenian the way he does? He has his own retarded dialect that I've never heard anyone else use. I don't get it. How does one acquire such a rejected style of speech all his own? Yes al gouzem!!! Maybe we should all create our own versions of the language.
As for my 2 cents/review of his music. I think hhis new album title says it all ~ Mortsir!
*(I will admit... I do like a couple songs of his, but otherwise I'm not a fan)
Lori, Vrouyr, Shooshig,
I assume we have a front runner for the Worst Armenian CD Cover? Trust me, I have more.
-Meneshian
Raffi - I wanna see other bad CD covers!
I agree... the shiny shirt in itself is grounds for a ticket but the added chest/chest hair exposure just doesn't do it for me.... NOT HOT!
Is that a wifebeater tanline I see? Maybe his unnecessary stretch pose was meant to accentuate his lack of Armenian man belly?
Onnik... If those "bright young Armenians" you refer to think of leaving how "bright" can they be?
Shooshig is right! We know young people who have good jobs and have moved out into their own places and would NEVER think of leaving Armenia. THEY'RE bright and they're a testament that IT CAN BE DONE!
The truth is that the youth in Yerevan prefer to spend money at cafes and on clothes...they're lazy, spoiled, defeatists who rather complain and act like victims! I don't buy it!
At least he's not wearing those teenie bopper girls jeans with the pink floral shirt he often wears when he sings. Sadly, the shiny shirt is an improvement. This guy is a mess.
We want more!!! (but please none of my designs. eep!)
Every Sunday on http://armenianmusicreview.blogspot.com I will post another Worst Armenian CD Cover nomination with a simulcast on www.cilicia.com
Hampereh...
LOL...he is a mess! I do that stance when I get out of bed in the mornings.
shooosh, it is not easy to tend the lend when you come from a city. Go try it in between dealing with the danger of landmines.
Lori, I'm afraid it's the bright young things who don't care about cafes, clothes and everything else that want to leave.
It's the ones who want to change the country for the better but can't because there is no opportunity.
That's why we must have democratic elections starting from the October local elections although that too brings with it a myriad of other problems.
Onnik... if the youth of today can't change the future of Armenia, WHO CAN!!!!!??? Karekin Njteh said, "If you want to see the future of a nation, look at its youth."
If I'm looking at the majority of the youth in Armenia today (with their attitudes)... it doesn't look like a bright future. Instead of throwing in the towel and leaving, maybe the "bright young things" should inspire change, and even more so.. DEMAND IT!!!! They should speak up louder, instead of standing in lines at embassies. They should start a movement, and get active! What is this defeatest attitude? Nothing is going to change if everyone just stands around and waits for it...
The new generation has to be ready to take over! Out with the old, in with the new! These bribe-taking, non-tax-paying, benz-driving, body-guarded, big-bellied men can't be around forever!!!!
Well, on this I agree although students then find themselves receiving bad marks at universities, the KGB visits the dean and they're threatened with expulsion. This actually happens.
Unless, of course, youth are organized and coordinated. Strength in numbers etc.
However, I do agree with you totally on this one but the numbers of active youth are so small that they're insignificant. Nevertheless, I'm encouraged to see the signs of th start of a movement.
See:
Without Youth there is No Culture, No Normal Society, No Normal Nation…
http://oneworld.blogsome.com/2005/08/07/108/
Of course, the unknown issue is when the government and the thugs start to harrass, arrest and threaten journalists, will the Diaspora be there to support the victims or will it continue to rationalize why Armenia is actually regressing in terms of democracy, human rights and the rule of law?
Sorry:
That should have read:
"Of course, the unknown issue is when the government and the thugs start to harrass, arrest and threaten STUDENTS"
They already bribe, beat, and harrass journalists.
Onnik WHAT are you talking about? "it's the bright young things who don't care about cafes, clothes and everything else that want to leave." UMMMM VOCH!!!
How can you even say that? Have you walked around Yerevan with a clipboard taking surveys about the Youth's sentiments?
I know this may rock your world but YOU'RE ASSUMPTION IS WRONG!!!!
It's the defeatist, spoiled, lazy, cafe going, expensive clothes wearing portion of the youth that wants to leave the country.
Shooshig is right LET THEM LEAVE!!! Anbedk en!
No, Lori, it is YOU that is wrong. YOu are living in the typical Diasporan dreamworld. And yes, I have been doing a survery because currently I am researching youth in Armenia.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you're in denial.
Of course, not everybody wants to leave of course, but given the opportunity most will.
BTW: Interesting quote from Avetik Ishkanyan in today's New York Sun.
---
"People are leaving because they don't see any hope for the future," the chairman of human rights group Helsinki Committee of Armenia, Avetik Ishkanyan, said. "And the worst part is that the ones who are leaving are from the most active part of society - these are the people we need to bring about changes in this country."
---
Of course, I'm sure you think he's wrong as well...
http://www.nysun.com/article/18286
Sorry Onnik, but any article that fails to mention double digit economic growth for this many years is just selling a "story" to the American public. A completely moribund, terrible country, getting the second highest per capita assistance is a much more fascinating story than the truth. Plus there are factual errors, exaggerations that piss me off. Armenian Americans are not getting more and more money for Armenia, the amount is steadily (if not completely evenly) decreasing, and the US president requests much less money every single year, knowing what Congress will do, and of course the article almost implies that Armenia being undemocratic, is a massive exception to higher recipients of foreign aid (Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan are not democratic - I don't use this to say Armenia should look to them as a comparison, only to say the implication is false). Reminds me of other articles in the past that slam Armenia unfairly, merely to have a better "story". It's crap.
Let me ask you a question, Lori. Armenia is a highly corrupt, undemocratic country without the rule of law or good governance and those in power will make sure ut stays that way because that's where their wealth comes from.
Of course, I also agree with Shoosh and say that people have got to stand up and demand these people change or go and that is the ideal situation. Ironically, the argument given by some is that this is why the government is happy that those who might be able to change something leave.
There's an interesting article online about a recent study by the way.
Exit Interviews: Publication reveals cause and effect of emigration
http://archive.armenianow.com/archive/2003/november07/news/exit/index.htm
Some key quotes for you though:
"Many of those who leave the country are employed people, who have average living standards in Armenia and more or less normal perspectives for future," Kharatyan says. "Besides the lack of jobs, the reasons have deeper roots like lack of confidence, problems with getting used to new socioeconomic conditions, legal injustice, helplessness, hopelessness and feeling of being at a 'dead-lock'."
[...]
Kharatyan says that young people, who possess craft skills or are educated, and who might help strengthen Armenia, are among those who emigrate.
The research found that many believe emigration is advantageous for the standing government, as it decreases the number of active oppositionists. Further, when more people emigrate, there is less competition for jobs.
--
Of course, this has to change even if it means people standing up and demanding that the next elections are democratic or else...
Sorry, the question is this. If you are a young Armenian with an education and you can't look forward to earning more than $300 / month (if you're lucky and have the right connections) in a country where the rule of law and democracy doesn't exist, what possible motivation is there to stay?
Because it's the "motherland?"
Give me a break.
That said, I'd like to see the situation change where those youth instead of leaving can find a structure with a mature and genuine leadership to force the government to change.
We're not there yet but I hope it will emerge by the 2007 parliamentary elections...
Raffi, and people are talking about a possible revolution in Azerbaijan even though its economic growth exceeds Armenia. So, the issue is not the economic growth. The issue is how the benefits of that growth is distributed and that's the point for both Armenia and Azerbaijan (and Georgia for that matter).
We have all this economic growth but tax collection is exceedingly low, salaries are meagre (except in IT industry), democracy and respect for human rights are about to die and the state budget shows no real sign of any of that growth benefitting the country.
Like I've said before, neither Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia are in recession. What you do have in all three countries is the emergance of a very tiny middle class and a corrupt and selfish elite.
To be fair to the article, it does talk about economic growth. However, it also points out something else. That is, that it's only benefitting a small percentage of people in the country. Same in Azerbaijan and Russia.
Anyway, whatever, we'll soon see the true picture of Armenia in October during the local elections and November for the constitutional ammendments. Will there be violence to perpetuate a corrupt system or is everything okay. We'll know by the end of the year.
What exactly is this "typical diasporan dreamworld"? Enlighten me. Apparently you think you know me, but then again you think you know everything! You know it all and have all the answers and solutions. If we could juuuuust put you in charge we'd be set!
Judging from your blogs/comments on this website and others....You NEVER pass up the opportunity to bitch about "the way things are" in Armenia. If it's such a corrupt place.... WHY DO YOU LIVE THERE?
Aveli lav degh muh kudeer yev hon knah!
This is a great dialogue here. I think there are some very valid issues. The things I am picking up is the resentment toward Armenian youth in Armenia and their "attitude". These are based upon "observations". However, Onnik is bringing forward legitimate facts and concerns based on his experience in the field in Armenia as a leading journalist. The only think I can say (since I do not live there), is that you can't generalize "the armenian youth" with a wide brush based on the small minority of people you see in cafes. You can find "attitude" anywhere in the world in the center of town. I would think the thing to look out for is teens and youth in the outlying areas and judge if they have a fair shake to advance in life, whatever "advance" may be.
Lori, I see where you are coming from, but, have you read Onnik's material and seen his pictures? They portray a compelling view of current day Armenia many of us have never seen. I, for one, can appreciate a person who dedicates his profession and life sticking up for the under represented and unfortunate? Maybe that is his reason for being there.
I don't mean to pry, but, what is your reason?
The last log was by me, Meneshian. Not Farmer Raf (Koj). :)
As a journalist you select your topics and what you research and report....Onnik has CHOSEN to focus on how bad Armenia is and how badly the youth wants to leave why doesn't he bring to light that there ARE young Armenians (I KNOW these people) from outling areas who live on their own and work/go to school and have succeeded against all odds in making a future/life for themselves. If they can do it, others can too!
Let me ask Onnik why he felt the need to tell 17-20 year old diasporans blogging about their CYMA internships that their experiences/opinions about Armenia were wrong? We're all entitled to our own impressions/opinions RIGHT OR WRONG even if we are living in the "typical diasporan dreamworld".
Yes, Armenia does have corrupt, undemocratic elements to her... yes, it's a rough place to live unless you're wealthy...The same thing can be said about ANY COUNTRY even the U.S.
I'm trying to figure out where all these unhappy Armenians want to go that has it better than Armenia can you include that in your survey of the youth and let me know what they say?....Yes al hon yertam irents hed!
Lori, you're the first to speak about something you don't know. I choose the subjects that I believe are important for the future and in view of the vacuum of reliable information coming out from Armenia -- the Diaspora dreamworld about a transitional former Soviet Republic that faces a difficult path towards the future.
As for why I've chosen youth, the reason is simple. It is beyond argument that the majority of youth are apathetic and not involved in the process of nation building sometimes out of choice and also because of the way the system works.
In this case, it's kind of strange because I'm looking for the hope and the youth that will try and stay and do something. Unfortunately, the reality is that these are too few at present to have any effect at all.
As for the CYMA, my reason for that was quite simple. Corruption is rampant in the medical sector and these kids were spreading some very dangerous Diasporan dreams about nurses working for $50 a month when it's not true and when only 1 in 3 Armenians seel medical treatment.
As for why I'm still here, well I'm trying to do what I can but I will be honest, I am thinking of leaving if there is no sign of any change in the next year. If there isn't then this isn't the right place to bring up my 4 year old son who was born here and who has already faced threats to his health from corrupt doctors.
Now my question is why the hell aren't you here if things are so dandy? YOu can read the propaganda and push it all you like but the reality is that you don't know what you're talking about.
And please, don't compare Armenia to the West. Compare it to Azerbaijan and Georgia perhaps but Armenia is 100 years behidn the processes in the West.
Anyway, you're entitled to your views as I am mine but you're nationalistic view is precisely what most people in Armenia do not need now. Still, we can speak about it in person when you pack your bags and come over and live here, right?
BTW Lori: Perhaps you should send your questions to Hranush Kharatyan who works in the Prime Minister's Office and who is responsible for the quotes on emigration above. Or indeed, ask Avetik Ishkanyan (brother of Vahan Ishkanyan at ArmeniaNow.com).
I know, I know, you think they're all trying to paint Armenia in a bad light whereas in my opinion, it is precisely such open talk that is responsible for any chance of progress.
"you're nationalistic view is precisely what most people in Armenia do not need now"
Once again Onnik... another example of how you think you know what Armenia and Armenians need and don't need!
Just as an FYI... I have been to Armenia many times, My father and other family members have already moved there and after I've completed my Master's Program I do plan on moving to Armenia because it's where I belong and unlike YOU I am willing to live there and accept it the way it is The GOOD the BAD and the UGLY!
You're no better than the defeatists your studying! I dream of the day that all the garbage leaves Armenia and only the true Nationalists remain!
I think I have a solution. When you eventually end up in Armenia after grad school, Lori, you report on the positive angles of Armenian society. And, here's hoping Onnik continues to bring up the issues he finds interesting with stuff we should be aware of that others find "negative". Personally, I don't find it negative, rather, compelling information I balance out with the positive stories we hear about. We need both, and we need both of you.
-Meneshian
Meneshian - when Onnik blames me for the death of the homeless people in Yerevan last winter, I have to question all his writing and logic... The entire paragraph below is a quote of Onnik from last winter which I can only imagine is aimed at me (you'll know which part when you get to it). I find it particularly ridiculous since Onnik actually talked to these people, photographed them, and used them for his "story" and his sofa was just as warm as mine, but he did not take them in.
"Bash died in hospital. I still don't quite understand why or how.
Again, I have to say that for over a week that we spoke to him he was visible to everyone who passed by the crossroads of Abovian and Moscovian and they did nothing. Not the government including the populist Speaker of the Armenian Parliament, Artur Baghdasarian, who went to a concert within sight of the bomzh encampment, not the general public, not the Diaspora that remained in Armenia for the winter but who had too much money to spend alongside the new elite in the decadent, pretentious and quite retarded bars and restaurants of downtown and not the emergency medical services who were contacted by Edik."
Farmer Raf,
Thanks for the info and the passage. I think I will respectfully check out of this conversation at this juncture and take in all of the interesting points mentioned by everyone. Passion and conviction are not bad traits and a little debating now and again creates an interesting dialogue. It shows a pulse, and I am glad people care as much as they do. As long as egos are put aside and the main issues are discussed, a little bantor back and forth can be a good thing. We all learn from it.
So, the question is, how can Diasporans realistically help eradicate the homeless issue in Armenia by using our checkbooks and our spare time? I am sure Onnik can give us some suggestions..
Look... nobody has all the answers. That is the basic bottom line here! If Onnik (or anyone else for that matter) thinks they have ALLLLLL the solutions, then that very moment they are discredited, in my opinion.
Lori, I think it's awesome that you want to live here in the future because Armenia needs positive attitudes. If you talk to enough people here on a daily basis, you will be sharing your nationalistic views (which I've come to realize that the locals find encouraging and admire it).
In my opinion, a lot of the problems we have today .. starting from corruption, all the way to homelessness has to do with the LACK OF NATIONALISM. I think maybe Onnik doesn't even realize that nationalism helps with a lot of the issues... starting with that homeless person's death. The article he wrote was circulated among Armenian youth in the LA area, and in 2 weeks time BOXES AND BOXES of clothes were collected at our Armenian Center in La Crescenta. We later shipped the boxes with a nationalistic donor's money. Jackets, sweaters, thermals, etc. If the people up top were nationalistic in the least bit, they would have a problem with their own lifestyles.. Any azkaser person would realize they have provided for their families in the TEN-FOLD, and would begin to give back to the nation! (Even if it's just by paying taxes!!!!)
My 10 drams. :) hehe
I’m not into bad record covers and for that reason, I didn’t check the comments sooner to see what you all could be talking about. I only checked them after seeing 35 comments.
Lori, I don’t know you, though I’m sure you’re a very nice and patriotic person that wants to see the best for the Armenian nation. If I am correct in my assumptions, then I take my hat off to you and those like you.
The one thing that I want to point out just so you pick the right road when you come to Armenia to do your part in nation building is if you are “…willing to live there and accept it the way it is The GOOD the BAD and the UGLY!,” then your not going to be involved in nation building, as by accepting the bad and ugly corruption, Armenia is not going to move forward and turn into a place that the majority of the people who you refer to “defeatists” will want to stay. Your goal should be to accept the good and denounce and fight against the bad and ugly.
I have lived in Armenia for longer than anyone who is commenting on this log and no one has the right to call me a “defeatist.” I may not agree with everyone commenting, but my opinion leans in the direction of Onnik’s, only because I don’t know much about the café scene, where the minority of Armenian youth hang out with the majority of the Armenian Diaspora visitors form their opinions about Armenian life. I have had a good sampling of the majority of Armenian youth who are not content with the lives they have, this includes those who have the $200 a month jobs.
The reality is that Armenia is in a very sad state, but there is hope that things can turn around, this only when the majority of the people find it in them to stand up and demand their rights.
These "anonymous" loggers are starting to annoy me. Not for the content, but, for the fact that they can't put out their name with confidence. Speak up! Why hide?
-Meneshian
They are bugging me too, Raff. I have turned them off for the time being at least...
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